Staffies

foreign_correspondent

Ruby_Moon wrote: »

ETA Your examples are not puppies and they are all Staffies. 99 people out of 100 do not want a Staffie no matter how good their reputation is.

ummm - I may be missing something here, but I believe this thread is about staffies specifically (seeing as it is entitled "Staffies") and the first dog I linked to, Luna, is ten weeks old - so, she is, by any definition, a puppy...

I also discussed, in my post that a lot of very young dogs, under a year old, end up in rescue, and all the links I posted are to examples of dogs that fit this description....

Sadly, the dogs coming into rescue often include pregnant b1tches, and staffie pups do come up in rescue very often. Also, there are a lot of dogs under a year old that come in when people find normal puppy behaviour is too much for them (sadly, often because they were under-prepared for the realities of having a puppy).
Some examples here:
http://www.dogsblog.com/luna-5/

http://www.dogsblog.com/bruno-43/

http://www.dogsblog.com/tyger-2/

http://www.dogsblog.com/amelie-5-mon...-bull-terrier/

I think your 'concerns' about a breed dying out if less are bred is currently very unrealistic and misplaced in the case of staffies. Here are some of the dogs desperately needing rescue spaces (in just one area - rochdale) before their date to be PTS comes up - see how many of them are staffies? http://www.rochdale-dog-rescue.com/urgentdogs.html . This story is replicated up and down the country, with an influx of new dogs on a daily basis...

I can see no logic behind any concerns about an imminent shortage of staffies...

UKTigerlily

Ruby_Moon wrote: »

As I said, if everyone went to the rescue centre and got a Staffie tomorrow and no more were bred, what happens to the breed in 15 years time?
Who makes the decision to breed? Who is the one who gets to breed?
Why should people who want a Staffie have to have one that has already had another family influence? The very young puppies (weeks old) very rarely get given to families. Why should my family not have a puppy if we want one? Who is in charge of deciding who gets the best dogs?

I'll repeat, nobody has said to never breed them again have they? Please show me where anyone said that? *Right now* there isn't a need to be breeding them as pets at all, there is no fear of the breed dying out at this point in time. Also, nobody said don't get a Puppy, tho many people can't as they work. Who said Pups rarely get given to families? Is this an assumption? I assume so seeing as you don't seem to have a clue about rescue. (And what would 'the best dog' be? To me they all are as fantastic as each other & mine was 5 when I took her on, maybe I would have wanted a Pup but at the end of the day I put the Dog first & not my wants, a Pup wouldn't be right for *me* & my Dog has been 100% perfect & is still. I love the breed so would personally want to save one from being killed rather than have another from someone breeding them for no reason which takes homes from those in rescue, and trust me it does, here we have had a litter born & 3 are in rescue already at only 6 months old!)

C_Mababejive

candygirl wrote: »

Because they love kids, and are known as the "nanny dog":D:D

Perhaps they love them too much?

suki1964

UKTigerlily wrote: »

Mine's a working Dog too, however this thread is about Staffs so I meant Staffs being bred when thousands must die x

Please, do you not realise what a working dog is? Its one that works as the breed was designed for - ie cockers - flushing game from hedgrows, retrievers - working to the gun etc etc etc

A PAT dog, although it does a good job is not a "working dog"

foreign_correspondent

Whilst that is a often considered to be the traditional role of a working dog breed, even this old definition states it is about training and role (i.e. useful work - a broad definition), not limited to certain breeds and roles -

Main Entry: working dog
Function: noun
Date: 1885
: a dog suitable by size, breeding, or training for useful work (as draft or herding) especially as distinguished from one suitable primarily for pet, show, or sporting use


I think most people consider the meaning and use of language and terms to be flexible and dynamic, and the roles dogs 'work' in, in contemporary society have changed, so the use of the term reflects this - many people would consider guide dogs, assistance dogs, PAT dogs, diabetes alert dogs etc etc to be working dogs - ie. doing 'useful work'.

Certainly, the NHS tend to classify these dogs as working dogs, to differentiate between animals being brought on to healthcare premises to 'work' and, for example, someone wanting to bring their pet in with them.

suki1964

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Whilst that is a often considered to be the traditional role of a working dog breed, even this old definition states it is about training and role (i.e. useful work - a broad definition), not limited to certain breeds and roles -

Main Entry: working dog
Function: noun
Date: 1885
: a dog suitable by size, breeding, or training for useful work (as draft or herding) especially as distinguished from one suitable primarily for pet, show, or sporting use


I think most people consider the meaning and use of language and terms to be flexible and dynamic, and the roles dogs 'work' in, in contemporary society have changed, so the use of the term reflects this - many people would consider guide dogs, assistance dogs, PAT dogs, diabetes alert dogs etc etc to be working dogs - ie. doing 'useful work'.

Certainly, the NHS tend to classify these dogs as working dogs, to differentiate between animals being brought on to healthcare premises to 'work' and, for example, someone wanting to bring their pet in with them.

Most people?

You speaking for the majority again?

In the doggie world, working dog is a dog bred to be used for herding, hunting, retrieving etc etc etc

Not pat dogs who are just nice dogs from any breed who have the temprement to go onto a ward and be petted

foreign_correspondent

Not speaking for any majority Suki, just saying that I think it is commonly recognised that language is not static, and terminology and the use of language reflects the society it exists within.

Anyway, back to Staffies - I wonder what measures could be put in place to reduce the numbers of staffies in rescue?

The seven pups film was very familiar to me - I have known of quite a few cases locally where people think breeding their staffy b1tch is great idea (often after seeing staff pups advertised in the local rag for 2 or 3 hundred quid each) thinking it may be a way to make some dosh... eight pups, each selling at £200 each sounds like a great return for many dog owners... they think their dog is a nice looking dog and well behaved, so her pups should be easy to sell...

However, I have known people advertise such pups and find that they do not sell one.... a week or so later, they reduce the price.. still none sold... a week or so later, the pups are growing, making a mess of the carpet, they try £20 each, then 'free to good homes'... eight more dogs out there - if even one or two of the new owners eventually decide to breed their dog, you can see how the numbers add up...

How we discourage this I don't know - I can see the temptation for many people to be honest, even if I disagree with their actions...

I do think that council pounds should have to spey and neuter staffies though (and preferably other breeds too) before releasing them on to new homes - as home checks are not generally done, there is little to stop people using them as sources for cheap, entire dogs.

hethmar

Paradigm wrote: »

I haven't met a Westie yet that didn't start yapping & being a downright pain in the !!! as soon as it see's my dogs.. maybe it's the "little man" syndrome but in doggie world?

Horrible little things!

LOL, Im sure that the majority are lovely little dogs Para! I think the point I was trying to make is, the poor old staff is hard done by on the PR front.

suki1964

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Not speaking for any majority Suki, just saying that I think it is commonly recognised that language is not static, and terminology and the use of language reflects the society it exists within.



.

Fine upstanding arguement there

BUT

Tigerlily stated her dog was a working dog

Staffies are not working dogs

Staffie evolved from fighting breeds and inded they were originally bred to fight

So to class a staffy as a working dog is wrong


And as this thread is about staffies -then perhaps "working" was the wrong word to use


Rather like calling a puppy farmer a breeder really.......

CaroLondon

Its not an official statistic or anything but on the Battersea site they have 17 pages of available dogs, when you narrow down the search to just Staffies there are 8 pages, so with my rubbish maths that is just under half of all they dogs they have are Staffies or Staffie X.

I have no idea what the solution is, I do think dog licenses should be reintroduced at enough to cover and include the price of micro chipping (although I have no idea how much that costs these days) so in theory ALL dogs would be chipped, to make people think twice.

Then again I guess the kind of people who mistreat / let dogs "go" etc. are not the kind to buy a licence in the 1st place