What a charming bunch of people.....

HammerSmashedFace

ukcarper wrote: »

Even if the 50% fall puts you in negative equity are you couldnt move if you had to.

I won't have to move ever, only if I choose to and NE is never going to be an issue either, you have to have borrowed to be in NE.

carolt

Quizzical_Squirrel wrote: »

I hate the way this board makes such personal attacks.

I read this board because I want to know both sides. I welcome Hamish's HPI posts just as much as Carolt's doom posts (and the others on both sides, they're just the names that spring to mind as I type.)

I'm very happy to let these two rather obsessed individuals (bless 'em!) do all the research for me and I benefit from it and really appreciate that they've posted it.

These posters are both the same, just opposite sides of the coin so I don't get why Hamish is attacked personally but Carolt doesn't suffer the same (and I'm glad she doesn't, it's bad enough that it happens to one of them.)

Is it because there are more on Carolt's "side" on this board so they're not receptive to hear something that may disrupt the cameraderie?

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Thanks - best laugh I've had in ages.

Have you not been here long?

(BTW, I think I'm fairly optimistic - I just happen to be waiting before I buy a house. I do think prices have further to fall, but that's not why I'm waiting. I'm not sure how this qualifies as the spokesperson for the Doom Party.

Y'know - I don't think there actually is such a Party. Outside of Hamish's imagination.)

EDIT: Also just spotted the slur concerning me as 'obsessed' with posting negative threads. The only thread of mine currently on P1 is the Nice People Thread. Have a look at it - not quite clear how you'd turn that into a diatribe about catastrophe in the economy or anywhere else.

P2 has one on bank charges. Again !!!!!! all to do with housing market falling...

Couldn't be bothered to look any further. But you get my drift.

Pobby

A lot of my thinking stems from the early 90`s when, I am assuming, a good many of the posters here are too young to remember what happened. There had been a boom, again funded by less than strict criteria. The government of the day, mid 1988 said that they were going to put an end to double miras. Massive panic to buy. Houses were on fire. There were 3 houses to sell, in a village of 6,000 population when we wanted to buy there.

Suddenly things went horribly wrong. As well as recession, Lady M and her band of jolly folk decided to tackle inflation at the same time. Interest rates went up on a regular basis. I wished I had rented for say £250 a month instead of the £700 I had to find ( endowment and £58k mortgage ). People lost there jobs, thrown out of there homes. Businesses down the drain. it was horrible.

At the same time poll tax was introduced, often hitting hardest the poorer end of the population ( no change there then ). The icing on the cake was the aborted attempt to join the ERM. In one afternoon IRs went to 15%. OK, I was in London at the time. We hurried back to hotel to see that the government had capitulated ( having lost a fortune ) and had brought the rates back down some.

It was a very difficult and depressing time for many.

Thankfully we don`t have those IRs now. During a convo with my wife we said that although we are losing £1,000s a year in interest at least we are not witnessing ( yet ) as bad as the early 90`s.

So forgive me but I find posts, ramping up HPI at best, somewhat incredible. At worst stupid and full of vested interest.

There are some fine posters here but there are some that come out with a lot of twaddle, imho.

ukcarper

HammerSmashedFace wrote: »

I won't have to move ever, only if I choose to and NE is never going to be an issue either, you have to have borrowed to be in NE.

You talk about greed but 50% drops would put a lot of people in negative equity and place some in difficulty. But from your privileged position I suppose it’s easy to criticise.

carolt

Cleaver wrote: »

It's only on this forum that we put people in to two camps or 'teams' of owners and renters and consider their opinions based on this.

What does me owning a house have anything to do with the points I was making?



I have indeed. I think we're in agreement that calling someone a loser based on their housing status is immature, ill-considered and plain wrong. It think it also shows insecurity.

But at the risk of patronising you Carol, you seem to have fallen in to this mse way of thinking of dividing me up in to a bullish, hamish, camp via the comments I was making. I.e., I defend him, agree with his points etc., then others come along and argue with him, call him a moron and like minded people thank their posts.

I don't agree with a lot of what Hamish says, especially around HPI being sustainable and being good for people in general. I do agree with some of his points about certain people being overly pessimistic. I vaugley agree with him about house prices rising generally over time. I don't agree with his assertion that every at HPC is cheering on unemployment - only some of them seem to do that in my eyes, the others seem quite considered. I certainly agreed with his original post on this thread that someone pointing out that they had 'hoped for more' job losses is pretty weird and, in some ways, sick.

But all of that is irrelevant. I was just saying that Hamish posts a lot of articles on here which are very relevant to the subject matter of the board. In an ideal world lots of people would come on and robustly counter-argue those points. Only a few people tend to do that though, most seem to call him a tw*t, a troll and repeatedly talk about him getting barred from other site. This is just an observation of course, it's none of my business what people post.

I simply can't understand how an intelligent poster such as yourself cannot see the trolling nature of Hamish's posts.

His manner of posting immediately devalues whatever point he might have been trying to make.

I mentioned your home-owning status because it was the only logical reason I could see for a normally sensitive poster like yourself to be so blind to Hamish's usual manner. As in, it's easier to 'miss' insults that are directed at others unlike yourself - a bit like racism, often only those directly attacked can be the judge of whether or not it's offensive.

Can you not see that this whole thread is nothing more than an attack on all bears, under the guise of an attack on an individual poster? Who - as far as I know - has never even posted on this site, and whose views are therefore totally irrelevant?

You claim 'that Hamish posts a lot of articles on here which are very relevant to the subject matter of the board' - but I fail to see how this thread can possibly be regarded as anything other than blatant trolling.

lostinrates

Quizzical_Squirrel wrote: »

I hate the way this board makes such personal attacks....

and then go on to single out two posters?

HammerSmashedFace

ukcarper wrote: »

You talk about greed but 50% drops would put a lot of people in negative equity and place some in difficulty. But from your privileged position I suppose it’s easy to criticise.

It would be nice if no one had to suffer, but I believe the needs of the many (the next generations), outweigh the needs of the few (over-leveraged in the last 8 years), and even those shouldn't be in too much difficulty if they factored in high rates when they borrowed and didn't MEW.

If you're are a BTL'r or a MEWer then you have to take the rough with smooth, after all it's pretty much the same as any kind of gambling, some you win, some you lose.

Cleaver

carolt wrote: »

I simply can't understand how an intelligent poster such as yourself cannot see the trolling nature of Hamish's posts.

I dunno, maybe we have a different view of 'troll'. I guess I would class a troll as someone who just posts things purely to wind people up, regardless of their own opinion on things. I think everything Hamish posts is his genuine opinion, no matter whether I think it's wrong or not.

carolt wrote: »

His manner of posting immediately devalues whatever point he might have been trying to make.

I think posts such as this:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=27357455&postcount=5

shows that Hamish is an intelligent chappy with well informed opinions on things. As I say, I don't agree with everything he says. In fact, I probably disagree with more than agree with. I was just making the point that I think he contributes and the normal response is insults rather than counter-arguments.

carolt wrote: »

I mentioned your home-owning status because it was the only logical reason I could see for a normally sensitive poster like yourself to be so blind to Hamish's usual manner.

I'm not blind to anything. Hamish seems to insult people and have quite a strange point on a number of things, which isn't good. I'm just still saying that he posts a number of good articles, often has a robust and well thought through point of view and more often than not this is met with insults rather than counter-arguments.

carolt wrote: »

As in, it's easier to 'miss' insults that are directed at others unlike yourself - a bit like racism, often only those directly attacked can be the judge of whether or not it's offensive.

Again, I haven't missed his insults.

carolt wrote: »

Can you not see that this whole thread is nothing more than an attack on all bears, under the guise of an attack on an individual poster? Who - as far as I know - has never even posted on this site, and whose views are therefore totally irrelevant?

You claim 'that Hamish posts a lot of articles on here which are very relevant to the subject matter of the board' - but I fail to see how this thread can possibly be regarded as anything other than blatant trolling.

You're actually correct there, I picked completely the wrong thread to post this point on. I would have been better posting it on the thread where Hamish posted an article and said the following:

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Banks clearly getting more confident the worst is behind us, and that any future dip will be small. As predicted by many of us, the liquidity is driving competition, and competition is increasing LTV's and reducing bank margins.

Which seems a fair enough point about an interesting article. This was met with:

Of course, but not in the lithium world of Hamish McDesperation.

He has no effect on anybody with half a brain cell so why bite?

etc. etc. etc.

Hardly the Oxford Union Debating Society is it?

carolt

Agreed, maybe next time choose a more suitable post to comment on!

Mr.Brown_4

HammerSmashedFace wrote: »

I'm not, I'm assuming that people who want eternal HPI are, after all why do they want it if not to be financially richer ?

IF I was making a packet out of a rising house market and IF I was financially secure and IF I had a happy and content life I would NOT need to be on here perpetually posting HPI is good news threads. On the other hand IF I was in desperate trouble and IF I had borrowed unwisely to buy at the peak and IF I owned several BTL's and was watching prices and rents fall THEN I would probably not have much else to take my mind off things.

I think people who pump most are the ones in the most trouble. Those who just bought a house they could afford to live in will have a view, but they will not be the one's with the insane output, in some cases several thousands of posts, about how great everything is.