Apple Airport Express query

BarGin

It's not very far distance wise. About 25 feet between the Airports and 1 metre of cable at each end.

Edit: If I take the Express out of the equation, run the Extreme at 2.4 GHz and use my old single channel wireless adapter in my pc I achieve just under 6 MB/s.

BarGin

Any ideas why my Apple network is working so poorly?

Leopard?

Leopard

You don't follow the advice I've given you in both your threads.

Buying the Airport Express was a mistake: I told you it wouldn't achieve what you're trying to do.

And you still haven't revealed the speed of the Ethernet port on your PC.

If you don't want to set things up in the manner I've already suggested, put the Airport Extreme Base Station back in the room with the Airport TV and run Cat5e Ethernet cable from the PC to a Gigabit LAN port on the Airport Extreme Base Station.

Your other alternatives are to put a 5 Ghz capable 802.11n networking card in the PC or to use 200 Mb/sec powerline adaptors to make the bridge if you can't or don't want to use cable.

If you're determined to persevere with the Airport Express, check which channels your two Airports are using and ensure they are both switched to 802.11n at 5 GHz only. If the two devices are to talk to each other from a distance of only 25 feet, set their Wireless Mode to "Participate in a WDS network" and follow the instructions that came with it.

You should also check that the networking software on your PC is correctly configured for the maximum (and so far unrevealed) speed of which its Ethernet port is capable - which you may need to do manually. I'm afraid I can't help you, personally, with configuring a PC because I don't do Windows myself and it's been well over a year since I set one up for a neighbour.

You should, however, find that all of that is covered in the guide to which I provided you with a link in your previous thread.

JasX

I'll setting up similar hardware in the next week or so when my BB gets upgraded to 24 Meg (yay) so will try to follow the advice in both threads

setup will consist of
1x apple TV
1x airport extreme (will be main connection to internet via ethernet to ADSL modem)
1x airport express (strictly for remote speakers around the house & when travelling -will be off most of the time at home)
1x Win7 PC (unfortunately has only a 2.4 Ghz Wireless N PCI card)

will experiment a bit... unsure how beneficial it'd to get the PC a 5Ghz card, only link I was having noticable issues with using 802.11 G was the appletv struggling with HD trailers sometimes... -in which case perhaps keeping the PC off the 5GHz band might be beneficial?

Leopard

JasX,

What modem and router do you have now? Are they capable of your new broadband? If so, and you could run them in parallel with your Airport Extreme, you could buy just a Gigabit version of the Airport Extreme and run that on 5 GHz only, in Bridge mode. A big saving on the price of a new simultaneous dual band Airport Extreme.

I'd say it would be well worth upgrading your PC to 5 GHz capable 802.11n but I'm not into PCs and can't advise on which PCI card would work best with your PC and an Airport Extreme. You could ask at an Apple Retail Store or check out the Apple Support Discussions Forum: I have found lots of helpful advice and answers to tricky problems on there. Indeed, the advice of somebody who's actually sorted a problem one has is usually better than that of an Apple Genius who knows what the answer is supposed to be but has never tried it himself. (A phenomenon that manifests itself all too often on MSE generally. :rolleyes: )

I have to ask, though; are you sure that – with a PC, as opposed to a Mac – a Sony PlayStation 3 would not be better suited to your needs than an Apple TV? We have both and the only real advantage to me of the Apple TV is its ability to work directly with the Macs and hard drives that I have, which are formatted in Apple's "HFS+ (Journaled)", rather than FAT32.

What's the Ethernet speed of your PC: is it Gigabit capable?

BarGin

Thank you Leopard for your continued patience with my problem. I will try and explain my situation a little better.

My pc network interface is 10/100 Mb.

I am not too bothered about the Apple TV. Most of its files are on its own hard disk and it can access the Internet OK. I have it connected by cable to the Extreme and that works OK. Although, for some reason it won't connect to the Extreme wirelessly - I have tried loads of times without success.

Also connected to the Extreme I have a 1.5TB external hard drive via usb and an Xtreamer media player via ethernet.

I am in the process of ripping my Blu-ray and HD DVD discs on my pc for playback on the media player. The resultant files are quite large and I want to be able to drop them on a networked disk icon when they are done to transfer them to the remote external hdd.

As I have the Express now I would like to persevere with it for the time being. I would have thought it would be fairly simple to get the 2 Airport devices communicating with each other at high speed. I have set the Extreme to "Create a wireless network" at 5 GHz only. The Express is set to "Join a wireless network". With this setting there is no option to set frequency.

As it stands I can access the Internet on the pc and copy small files to the hard disk - anything larger than approx. 5 MB fails. So it is useless as it stands.

If I choose to "Participate in a WDS network" the only option is N (B/G) compatible. 5 GHz is not available.

Sorry for rambling on but I think that is a full summary of how my setup is at the moment.

JasX

Hi Leopard

yes PC has 2x Gigabit ethernet ports. My existing router is unbranded, non ADSL2+ capable, G only and not mine (borrowed after my last one blew up). however I'll be getting a basic, non-Wifi ADSL2+ from my ISP free.

Not really a fan of Playstations, have had the apple TV for almost 18 months now and am v happy with it (OH likes the UI and browsing movie HD trailers on it, plus a pile of 33%off itunes vouchers covers movie rentals )

Rest of the H/W is now owned too -got the dual brand Airport Extreme (MB763B/A Model No A1301) yesterday -> gatwick airport dixons, tax free and on offer for £102 brand new

Have been scratching around and lots of posts google comes up with seem to be people looking for any 5Ghz capable PCI card at all....

Found this for about £32 which looks like an option
http://www.svetkomunikacij.si/img/products/WMP600N-EU-WiFi-N-PCI-card_at1.pdf

also looking around found this

ftp://ftp10.dlink.com/pdfs/products/DWA-556/DWA-556_ds.pdf

-only 2.4 Ghz but if PCIe wifi cards are on the horizon perhaps its worth waiting a little to see if a 5Ghz PCIe comes along..... ?

Leopard

BarGin,

I am trying to help you with your problem but you aren't making it easy. :cool:

Not least because there has been a degree of contradiction between your two threads on this same issue. Particularly in regard to your Apple TV.

Let's start by putting a link, here, to your other thread, to facilitate getting them both on to the same screen.



In your first thread, you wrote:

BarGin wrote: »

My AEBS arrived yesterday and I spent the evening trying to set it up. Everything went ok when I used the configuration wizard but this only sets it up at 2.4 GHz. Afterwards I chose manual setup which allowed me to choose 5GHz and my Apple TV was able to connect without problem but my Windows 7 PC wasn't able to see it at all. Any idea how to solve this please?

Now you write:

BarGin wrote: »

Thank you Leopard for your continued patience with my problem. I will try and explain my situation a little better.

My pc network interface is 10/100 Mb.

I am not too bothered about the Apple TV. Most of its files are on its own hard disk and it can access the Internet OK. I have it connected by cable to the Extreme and that works OK. Although, for some reason it won't connect to the Extreme wirelessly - I have tried loads of times without success.

Also connected to the Extreme I have a 1.5TB external hard drive via usb and an Xtreamer media player via ethernet.

I am in the process of ripping my Blu-ray and HD DVD discs on my pc for playback on the media player. The resultant files are quite large and I want to be able to drop them on a networked disk icon when they are done to transfer them to the remote external hdd.

As I have the Express now I would like to persevere with it for the time being. I would have thought it would be fairly simple to get the 2 Airport devices communicating with each other at high speed. I have set the Extreme to "Create a wireless network" at 5 GHz only. The Express is set to "Join a wireless network". With this setting there is no option to set frequency.

As it stands I can access the Internet on the pc and copy small files to the hard disk - anything larger than approx. 5 MB fails. So it is useless as it stands.

If I choose to "Participate in a WDS network" the only option is N (B/G) compatible. 5 GHz is not available.

Sorry for rambling on but I think that is a full summary of how my setup is at the moment.

I'm assuming that you still have the arrangement you explained in your first thread, with the O2 modem wireless router (b/g at 2.4 GHz), the Apple TV and the Airport Extreme Base Station all in close proximity in one room and your PC in another room, some 25 feet away but not reachable (in a permanent setup) by Ethernet Cable.

You have stated already that "everything went OK", implying that this included the PC, when you let the Apple wizard set it up for you at 2.4 GHz.

But, understandably, you want to use 5 GHz, since both the Airport Extreme Base Station and the Apple TV can communicate by it (and have already done so, without problem).

At a distance of only 25 feet (unless it's through thick, granite, stone walls) the best way to add your PC to the Apple Airport Extreme Base Station's network on 5 GHz only, would be to upgrade your PC's wi-fi card to one which can operate on that frequency. I don't know what card would be best for that because I don't have a PC desktop myself and I have no knowledge of yours. What I do know is that my companion's work Dell laptop (b/g) connects effortlessly to our 2.4 GHz network (which is created by a round, b/g, Apple Airport Extreme, running in Bridge mode) and that my MSI Wind netbook, which arrived as a Windows XP computer with a RealTek b/g wif-fi card in it, did the same. So, that works fine.

When I then swapped the RealTek card in the Wind for a wi-fi card pulled from an Apple MacBook (obtained quite cheaply via eBay) and Mac-hacked the Wind, the first time it booted up it asked me for the name of my network, its encryption method and its password. The details I gave it were those of my Airport Extreme's 5 GHz only, WPA2 encryped wireless network (on wide channels). The Wind then simply connected to it at 5 GHz, remembered its details and now logs on to it automatically whenever I bring my Wind back into the house after I've been out with it. So, that works fine – on 5 GHz.

(The Wind can also connect, instead, to our 2.4 GHz network when instructed to do so. So, that still works.)

To achieve this yourself, you would need to find a desktop PC equivalent of the laptop card I put in my Wind.


But you wish, instead, to effect a 5 GHz bridge between your Airport Extreme and an Airport Express you have now purchased. (Have you checked, incidentally, that the latter is indeed the 5 GHz n version and not one of the previous generation which was only 2.4 GHz b/g? I just ask because a lot of those are now being sold off cheaply to the unwary.)

Everything you need to know is explained, with typical Apple lucidity, with diagrams and with very helpful screen shots of the pages you need to configure in THIS 77 PAGE MANUAL to which I gave you a link in your previous thread. For what you are trying currently to achieve, read the section that commences on Page 40 and, in particular, the bit that begins on Page 42.

Start by checking that you have installed on your PC the latest (Windows) version of the Apple Airport Utility Tool, available from here. It's probably this.

I'd then connect your PC, your Airport Extreme and your Airport Express by Ethernet to your O2 router (assuming that you have configured your O2 router to do the routing) by Ethernet cable while you set things up. I would do this because if your PC is only 2.4 GHz capable and you try to configure an Airport to 5 GHz only with it wirelessly, it may not let you and, even if it does, you'll then lose the ability to address it wirelessly.

When you then run the Airport Utility on your PC, you should be able to see, in a column on the left of the window, an icon for your Airport Extreme and an icon for your Airport Express.

Start with the Airport Extreme and configure it manually (which you stated that you have done before).

Assuming that you have set up, and given a name to, a 5 GHz only 802.11n wireless network, tick the box for "Allow this network to be extended". That is essential. Then click on the "Update" button (in the bottom right hand corner of the page) to save that – otherwise the change will not be implemented and stored on the Airport Extreme. The Airport Extreme should then re-boot itself (during which time its icon will disappear, temporarily, from the column on the left of the screen) and then resume with the change made.

Now, in the column on the left of the page, select the icon for the Airport Express and proceed to configure that, too, manually. Set it to 5 GHz only and then select (in the box marked "Wireless Mode") the option "Extend a wireless network". Enter the name of the Airport Extreme's wireless network and set the channel to "Automatic". Enter the encryption mode and the password. Then, as with the Airport Extreme, click on the "Update" button to install and save the changed configuration on the Airport Express.

Again, the icon will disappear, temporarily, while the Airport Express re-boots. That can take a minute or two, so be patient.

At the end of this process, the bridge between the two Airports should have been created, at 5 GHz on wide channels.

If that process fails, configure the two devices separately, one after the other, starting with the Extreme, by connecting each one directly to your PC by Ethernet cable.

This should achieve the connectivity that you want. If it doesn't, put both the Airports back to factory settings and then configure them from scratch, as above.

The reason for the problem you are having with file transfers could be due to the configured file format of your external hard drive. But if you go to the "Disks" icon in the menu bar at the top of the Airport Utility, you can tweak the settings – and the same applies if you go to the "Internet" icon of the same menu bar.

Pretty much everything you could want to know (and a lot more besides) is covered by the manual to which I have provided you with a link and in the Help feature of the Airport Utility.

Please try to understand that I am not a trained Apple technician. Nor have I ever had a "Systems Administrator" nor an "IT Department" to call upon. So, everything I do know is what I have researched, myself, usually online, to solve whatever problem I have encountered, over the years. This means that my knowledge is not universal and does not extend to solving problems (especially with Windows) with which I have never been confronted myself nor needed to investigate and solve. It does, however, mean that when I do say that something works it's because I have done it myself and made it work. That knowledge, however limited and specialised, I am happy to pass on to others, but for help with Windows and PCs and any other devices with which I have never done battle you need to seek help from people who use those, instead, and who understand how they work. I have, for example, not the faintest idea what your "Xtreamer media player" is and does, nor how it does it. The great advantage of MSE is that it brings together so many people with different areas of expertise and this enables, eventually, a solution to be found which is beyond the specific knowledge of any one of them.

Anyway, try the Apple part of it that I've explained and see what happens.

Leopard

JasX wrote: »

Hi Leopard

yes PC has 2x Gigabit ethernet ports. My existing router is unbranded, non ADSL2+ capable, G only and not mine (borrowed after my last one blew up). however I'll be getting a basic, non-Wifi ADSL2+ from my ISP free.

Not really a fan of Playstations, have had the apple TV for almost 18 months now and am v happy with it (OH likes the UI and browsing movie HD trailers on it, plus a pile of 33%off itunes vouchers covers movie rentals )

Rest of the H/W is now owned too -got the dual brand Airport Extreme (MB763B/A Model No A1301) yesterday -> gatwick airport dixons, tax free and on offer for £102 brand new

Have been scratching around and lots of posts google comes up with seem to be people looking for any 5Ghz capable PCI card at all....

Found this for about £32 which looks like an option
http://www.svetkomunikacij.si/img/products/WMP600N-EU-WiFi-N-PCI-card_at1.pdf

also looking around found this

ftp://ftp10.dlink.com/pdfs/products/DWA-556/DWA-556_ds.pdf

-only 2.4 Ghz but if PCIe wifi cards are on the horizon perhaps its worth waiting a little to see if a 5Ghz PCIe comes along..... ?

JasX,

I'm glad you're happy with your Apple TV. (They, too, can be hacked to enable the USB port, which Apple supplies closed - that's useful if you want to use a keyboard and/or mouse.)

Setting up a 5 GHz wireless connection between your Apple TV and your new Airport Extreme Base Station should give you usefully higher speed than the Apple TV's 10/100 Ethernet port. It did with ours.

Can't advise on a 5 GHz card for a PC desktop (see my Proustian posting above ) but I had no problems setting up 5 GHz on a netbook by simply swapping in a pulled card from a deceased MacBook. Cheap to source on eBay and it works a treat!

Although you'll be using your new ISP-supplied modem router as a modem, you may also wish to consider letting it do the routing, as well, instead of giving that function to the Airport Extreme. There can be advantages in doing that if the modem router has a better firewall than the Airport Extreme and it also enables you to switch off your wireless network when you're not using it (both for security and for power saving) while still leaving your wired network connected and routed, through a device that you won't be switching off.

We still use a Netgear DG834 (non-wireless) modem router, with all our Airports Extreme and our Airport Express in Bridge mode on a wired Gigabit network, but I also have, in reserve, a DrayTek 100 modem (it's a nice device) which I bought, new and unused, on eBay for £15. I stored, on one of the Airports, the necessary configuration to use it and then switched it back to Bridge mode. Not only does that provide a hardware backup for the Netgear but when our Internet goes down (it's usually very reliable) and our ISP starts suggesting that the fault may be in our own equipment, it's handy to be able to reject that by saying that our other modem and router won't connect either.

Feel free to ask, if you think anything I know from my own experience might assist you further but do remember that PCs and Windows aren't my thing!

PS. You'd be wise to be more careful about airing illegal ways of evading VAT on here. You're posting ever more clues on how to track you down, for those who might wish to do so, and your advice might be followed by those who aren't aware of the severe and far-reaching penalties for being caught. MSE isn't over-populated with masterminds. :rolleyes:

I don't mind arguing the toss with Apple, legally, over Mac-hacking a netbook when I have a spare and paid-for Mac OS X licence but HM Revenue & Customs are another matter entirely: they have draconian legal powers and are unwise to mess with or upset – let alone taunt publicly.

BarGin

Leopard

I must start by saying thank you very much for all your help it is very much appreciated. Especially the last "Proustian" posting.

First, regarding my Apple TV, it did work when I first set it up with the Extreme but after adjusting the settings for 5 GHz etc. it stopped working. I spent quite some time trying to get it working again including resetting the ATV to factory defaults but to no avail. However, following the suggestions in your last post (probably mainly the resetting of the Extreme to factory default) it is now working wirelessly at the 5 GHz.

I am now left with 2 issues:

1) Setting up the Extreme according to your instructions is no problem but when I go to set up the Express, if I choose to extend a network there is no option to select a radio mode (5 GHz), all I can choose is the network to extend. Everything else is OK. After this procedure I am able to transfer files to and from the Airport's attached disk using my netbook attached to the Extreme via ethernet at approx. 5.5 MB/s. If I connect my netbook directly to the Extreme via ethernet I get a transfer rate of 10 MB/s. This indicates to me that the wireless bridge is not working at the speed it should be.

2) This is really bugging me. My netbook is running the pre-release version of Windows 7 and it works with the Extreme/Express setup OK, albeit a little slowly as described above. If I plug the ethernet cable from the Express into my main pc (running Windows 7 Ultimate retail) I can't write anything other than very small files to the external hard disk attached to the Extreme although I can read from it OK. I have tried setting the Extreme up to 2.4 GHz only as an experiment and used a Wireless N usb adapter in the pc and I still can't write to the Extreme. So it fails using 2 different network adapters.

BTW the external hard disk is formatted to HSF+ (journaled). This was achieved using a trial version of Macdisk. I tried doing it with my main pc but that failed but it was no problem using the netbook. It seems my main pc is allergic to all things mac! Even if I were to buy a dual mode pci or usb adapter I very much doubt it would work.

Once again, thank you for all your advice but I seem to be banging my head against a brick wall now.

Edit: Before posting this, I have just spent a couple of hours setting it up in WDS mode following the instructions in the pdf. Although the pdf talks about 5 GHz, once you select WDS there is no option to choose anything other than 802.11n (B/G compatible). Once set up I only achieved a data transfer rate of 1.5 MB/s.