The Sub Prime Credit Thread - Part IV

ElkyElky

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Mate cifas don't flag anything - the lender does and because you spoke to argos then all trace of the original search will be removed and replaced with the correct version, failing that just ask the CRA to amend the record.

Regards to N Hunter & CIFAS - for the 278th time now - they only record acute patterns of abuse, a simple typo would NEVER be flagged. :rolleyes::D

What about a simple typo in the income box? Say... an extra few 0's? :rotfl:

misty_blue_2

misty_blue wrote: »

Hi everyone
can i ask , when would OH fisrt statement for vanquis be due, if anyone knows would be very much appreciated.
Got accepted on 27th nov, got card and pin by 7th dec .

thanks in advance
misty

never-in-doubt wrote: »

1st week of January - or ring and they will tell you. I got accepted 28th Jan (last year) and my statement date is 28th and arrives - today! haha - you should get it this week or early next week at latest.

Tel: 08007816314

Got statement through today
thanks again :beer:

never-in-doubt

Cash_Flow wrote: »

Cap One searched Experian when I applied back in April 2008;)

Crappy One always use Equifax - they are tied into a joint service level agreement mate, there is more chance of their MD flying to the moon than them searching Experian mate.

I know we've been here before but why would they search away from their joint SLA? It makes no sense and this would be the first such case of them searching experian before equifax.... To be fair, just noticed you stated 04/2008 but even then, they primarily used Equifax.

I think you may be slightly mistaken matey - sorry, but they don't actually use Experian and only recently started to share data with them. Crappy1 have controlling interests, as do Barclays, in Equifax. :rolleyes:;)

Zack1

ElkyElky wrote: »

What about a simple typo in the income box? Say... an extra few 0's? :rotfl:

:rotfl:

If a lender flags you do they tell you about it? I just remember putting 7k on some forms, then it went up to 10k, but when I recalculated it it's more like 11k! Don't want to be flagged for the perfectly reasonable changes!

never-in-doubt

ElkyElky wrote: »

What about a simple typo in the income box? Say... an extra few 0's? :rotfl:

Nooooo - I explained this (to you as well mate) months ago!

CIFAS works by allocating major change policies to each variation of data. So if you earned £20k and then it showed as a salary of 200k it would recognise the mistake and ignore it. If however you stated in the last application that you earned £25k and then you make a new application and declare you earn £46,275 then they would compare this with the actual employer - if the employer was the same as the last entry then they would probably flag it (i.e. too big an increase) but if you changed employers and it tallied up, i.e. length of time, then they would let it go as genuine.

CIFAS and N Hunter are funny old tools. CIFAS can only be added by the lender whereas N Hunter is added by the system and reported to future applications. Totally different systems that both do totally different things!

never-in-doubt

Zack1 wrote: »

:rotfl:

If a lender flags you do they tell you about it? I just remember putting 7k on some forms, then it went up to 10k, but when I recalculated it it's more like 11k! Don't want to be flagged for the perfectly reasonable changes!

Its all relative mate - as I say, its not like you work in retail (average is £10-£15k) and declare an increase of £20k for the same role...

So if you earned 7k, then 10k then 11k that is fine, could be a normal part time to full time jump then an annual increment. See what i'm saying here?

No CIFAS or the lender will never tell you, that is the reason, cos they suspect fraud! They are hardly going to notify the fraudster they are onto them lol :rotfl:

ElkyElky

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Its all relative mate - as I say, its not like you work in retail (average is £10-£15k) and declare an increase of £20k for the same role...

So if you earned 7k, then 10k then 11k that is fine, could be a normal part time to full time jump then an annual increment. See what i'm saying here?

No CIFAS or the lender will never tell you, that is the reason, cos they suspect fraud! They are hardly going to notify the fraudster they are onto them lol :rotfl:

BUT... if normal income increases doesn't get flagged, can't people just increment their income every 10/20 applications, so they will never be over-committed in the eyes of a lender?

If I make an application to AMEX and say my income is £30k and I'm self employed(even though I'm not)... and put that information on every other application I make from that point, how could they detect that is fraudulent if I've tried to disguise it as being a genuine income increase?

Zack1

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Its all relative mate - as I say, its not like you work in retail (average is £10-£15k) and declare an increase of £20k for the same role...

So if you earned 7k, then 10k then 11k that is fine, could be a normal part time to full time jump then an annual increment. See what i'm saying here?

No CIFAS or the lender will never tell you, that is the reason, cos they suspect fraud! They are hardly going to notify the fraudster they are onto them lol :rotfl:

But if it was ID fraud then wouldn't it be right to notify the person (as presumably the fraudster lives at a different address) so they can take action? So the only way I'd find out is looking at my files? Surely that would be notifying me too if I was doing it to commit fraud?

That's good though. My income didn't actually increase, I just underestimated it then realised that could cost me when I apply for things! Then I was reluctent to put anything that might be seen as unusual so left it for a bit, then went for it anyway

never-in-doubt

ElkyElky wrote: »

BUT... if normal income increases doesn't get flagged, can't people just increment their income every 10/20 applications, so they will never be over-committed in the eyes of a lender?

If I make an application to AMEX and say my income is £30k and I'm self employed (even though I'm not)... and put that information on every other application I make from that point, how could they detect that is fraudulent if I've tried to disguise it as being a genuine income increase?

Ok, if you're asking how to 'cheat' CIFAS - then yes, that is how to do it but every so often a lender will ask for proof and this will then be recorded with N Hunter and it is N Hunter that would catch you out. You need to have a very good paper trail, also too many increments would create a N Hunter flag as the norm is 2 increments per annum.

So whilst you can easily defraud and play the cifas system, the N Hunter system stops abuse!

The ONLY way to do it would be like this: (imagine this is an average year)

January - apply to a lender and declare employer and length of time = 2 years, salary = £12k

March - apply to a lender and declare employer and length of time = 2 years; 3 months, salary = £15k

July - apply to a lender and declare employer and length of time = 2 years; 7 months, salary = £21k

November - apply to a lender and declare employer and length of time = 2 years; 11 months, salary = £30k

The above would be an example of salary inflation and would be flagged by N Hunter on the July and November applications meaning you had 2 alerts (applicant refer markers).

If however, you went this way - you'd do better and get away with it!

January - apply to a lender and declare employer and length of time = 2 years, salary = £12k

March - apply to a lender and declare NEW employer and length of time = 3 months, salary = £15k

July - apply to a lender and declare same employer and length of time = 7 months, salary = £21k

November - apply to a lender and declare NEW employer and length of time = 4 months, salary = £30k

The above would work. In this case you're using the lack of employment stability to increase the salary element.

never-in-doubt

Zack1 wrote: »

But if it was ID fraud then wouldn't it be right to notify the person (as presumably the fraudster lives at a different address) so they can take action? So the only way I'd find out is looking at my files? Surely that would be notifying me too if I was doing it to commit fraud?

That's good though. My income didn't actually increase, I just underestimated it then realised that could cost me when I apply for things! Then I was reluctent to put anything that might be seen as unusual so left it for a bit, then went for it anyway

No mate, N Hunter & CIFAS never share their data - you must SAR them to see what they hold and at the point you issue a SAR they will verify you and ask for ID. If it was genuine ID Fraud, they would never tell you - its for you to tell them!

The best way to defraud and beat the system is to just add maybe £3k per annum to your annual salary and in 5 years you 'earn' £15k more!