Overpayers beware!!!

Gorgeous_George

Let's assume that the house sells and there is £50K equity. OP would like, say, £35K leaving £15 for wayward husband. Would that also follow that if there was £50K neagative equity, OP wouild be happy to own £35K of the debt.

Marriage is dead with attitudes like this. I suppose it was a nice day though with lots of lovely presents. When someone close to me divorced their wife (for adultery), she insisted on keeping any presents that were bought by her side of the family, including a garden spade, even though she no longer had a garden!



GG

ceegee

Bil2 wrote:

As I said- while we are together- I'm happy to share my posessions, money etc with him. I'm only concerned about what would happen if we were to divorce. Why don't you get that?

Genuine question, albeit possibly nosey.....why did you get married if it was only for "while we are together?" I don't understand. The two seem incompatible.

ceegee

Bil2 wrote:

AT LAST A SANE PERSON IS ON THIS THREAD!!! Thank you God!

You thank God, yet you do not accept that marriage is "until death us do part". Hmmmmmm.....

Penelope_Penguin

MSN usually makes me smile - this thread just makes me sad. Marriage is a partnership, based on shared experiences and trust. Each partner makes different contributions, and to bring everything down to money contributed can only serve to weaken that partnership.

My DH has been in paid work, while I stayed home with the children - an arrangement that suited us both. He'd be horrified if I thought that made him a senior partner, as he cointributed cash, and all I did was the bulk of child rearing (no complaints btw - I've loved nearly every minute); meal planning, preparing, shopping, clearing; fianncial planning and admin; gardening; chauffering and vehicle maintenance; keeping up relationships with friends and family; laundry; etc, etc, etc. If we worked out how much I might have earned doing this (bearing in mind I probably did a 80 hour week) my "contribution" would have been level with his.

Is there a suggestion that if we split, I wouldn't be entitled to much as I've contributed very little financially over the past 14 years?

In the end, it's only money - my relationship is worth far more than that.

Bil2

tawnyowls wrote:

If you are worried about paying him in the event of a divorce, you should think about changing your mortgage to one that allows not only overpayments, but drawdowns (not necessarily an offset mortgage), so you can take that money back out again (up to the original mortgage amount agreed) - cheaper than remortgaging. You may well find your current mortgage holder allows that facility - it's on my list of necessities when overpaying; what if you needed money suddenly in an emergency?

In the meantime, I second Debt-free Chick - talk to him and find out what's in his head. Protect yourself as much as possible, but try not to let this take over your relationship.

Luckily, I re-mortgaged with Alliance and Leicester in April and have a mortgage which is fully flexible (i.e any overpayments made can be withdrawn hassle free).

My problem is though that if I were to continue making overpayments and the marriage turned sour, if I withdrew my overpayments shortly before (or at the point at which) a divorce is mentioned by either me or my husband, would I be allowed to keep the money that I've taken out or would I be forced by the courts to put the money back into the mortgage?

Another qu. regarding assets (figures for example only):

Lets say the remaining mortgage (minus overpayments) is: £100,000
And that it's grown in worth by £10,000 (therefore £10,000 in equity)
If the equity in the property were to be split evenly on divorce- that would be £5000 each.


OK then- let now talk about savings (again, figures for example only).
You said that the mortgage debt (or debts in general) are no longer split in divorce proceedings (the mortgage is completely mine and it's also my name on the deed and the land registry).

So my mortgage debt is: £100,000
My savings are: £40,000
Therefore, on paper my assets in savings would be minus £60,000.

As my husband has no debts (none which I know about at least anyway), would this mean that he is 'wealthier' than me as far as assets go? Does that mean that I would not have to pay him anything and may even get out of having to pay him half the equity of the property?

All you critics out there- don't worry, I wouldn't 'go after' any of his money. I've been brought up to be self-sufficient and independent. What's mine is mine and what's his is his. I wouldn't have it any other way (which is why I was appalled to find out he could make a claim on MY overpayments!).


Another point for all you critics- I've invited my husband to join the mortgage repeatedly since the mortgage was set up two years ago and he's always flatly refused. This means that I am fully liable for all the mortgage payments- if he refused to pay or simply moved out, there would be nothing I could do about it. In addition to overpayments and basic monthly payments to the mortgage, I also pay for the house contents insurance, the buildings insurance, life insurance and mortgage payment protection insurance. If he were to decide to divorce me, even though I soley am legally responsible for the mortgage (he's signed a Deed of Consent)- he could make a claim on half the equity! This is not fair and anyone who thinks that it is needs their heads checking!

Bil2

djohn2002uk

I think the majority of posters on this thread, although maybe well meaning are not seeing the real problem that the OP has. And that is total insecurity and a clear understanding of marriage and although she flamed the last poster who suggested she needed some form of help it is obvious to me that she does.
That is not to sugest anything serious but just some guidance from someone with experience of life in general and marriage in particular.
Using phrases like those in the quotes below makes me think that marriage was the wrong path to choose, neither would a pre-nuptual agreement have been right but maybe a partnership as in a business agreement would have been more suitable.
Also to refer to posters as stupid because they have not agreed with the OP doesn't seem to me to be the right way to solicit any helpful comments. And I'm probably risking the same reaction too.

Quote. "I understand now- basically all my assets will have the mortgage amount taken out."

Quote. "If we ever divorce, my husband might be reasonable and fair about the whole thing (i.e. take what's his and leave what's mine), but then again he might try and totally clean me out. I can't predict the future, all I can do is protect myself as best as I can."

These 2 quotes are one of the main problems, Mine and His have no real place in a marriage with long term prospects.

Quote. "I think he would be more comfortable with making a legal agreement rather than being added to the mortgage (for reasons only known to himself)"

I thought married couples discussed important things like this, after all, you are suposed to be soul mates.

Penelope_Penguin

quote[Lets say the remaining mortgage (minus overpayments) is: £100,000
And that it's grown in worth by £10,000 (therefore £10,000 in equity)
If the equity in the property were to be split evenly on divorce- that would be £5000 each.


OK then- let now talk about savings (again, figures for example only).
You said that the mortgage debt (or debts in general) are no longer split in divorce proceedings (the mortgage is completely mine and it's also my name on the deed and the land registry).

So my mortgage debt is: £100,000
My savings are: £40,000
Therefore, on paper my assets in savings would be minus £60,000.

As my husband has no debts (none which I know about at least anyway), would this mean that he is 'wealthier' than me as far as assets go? Does that mean that I would not have to pay him anything and may even get out of having to pay him half the equity of the property?quote

Difference between your mortgage and property, and your credit (unsecured) debt, is that the courts will probably judge that though your husband hasn't got his name on the deeds or mortgage, as he has lived in the house, he has what is called a "beneficial interest". Therefore he may be liable for debts, and benefit from the asset. It's a moot point, but it has happened in my experience for utility and council tax bills, where the bill is in one name only, but the creditor can chase the other party due to them having received benefit from the service.

Penny.

Bil2

djohn2002uk wrote:

I think the majority of posters on this thread, although maybe well meaning are not seeing the real problem that the OP has. And that is total insecurity and a clear understanding of marriage and although she flamed the last poster who suggested she needed some form of help it is obvious to me that she does.
That is not to sugest anything serious but just some guidance from someone with experience of life in general and marriage in particular.
Using phrases like those in the quotes below makes me think that marriage was the wrong path to choose, neither would a pre-nuptual agreement have been right but maybe a partnership as in a business agreement would have been more suitable.
Also to refer to posters as stupid because they have not agreed with the OP doesn't seem to me to be the right way to solicit any helpful comments. And I'm probably risking the same reaction too.

Quote. "I understand now- basically all my assets will have the mortgage amount taken out."

Quote. "If we ever divorce, my husband might be reasonable and fair about the whole thing (i.e. take what's his and leave what's mine), but then again he might try and totally clean me out. I can't predict the future, all I can do is protect myself as best as I can."

These 2 quotes are one of the main problems, Mine and His have no real place in a marriage with long term prospects.

Quote. "I think he would be more comfortable with making a legal agreement rather than being added to the mortgage (for reasons only known to himself)"

I thought married couples discussed important things like this, after all, you are suposed to be soul mates.

Hmmm.... so are you saying that if it turns out that my savings are worth minus £60,000 and that because he has no debts, he is wealthier than me, then what's his is mine because we are married?

Are you suggesting therefore that I should attempt to clean him out if we divorce even though he is my 'soul mate' and all...? ;-). Interesting advice from such a marriage optimist!

djohn2002uk

On the first paragraph you should have added "and what's mine is his".

On the second I don't sugest that either one should attempt to "clean the other out".

I will add here a great deal of sympathy for your situation having now seen your latest post after I had posted, but it doesn't alter my original post in any way.

Bil2 wrote:

Another point for all you critics- I've invited my husband to join the mortgage repeatedly since the mortgage was set up two years ago and he's always flatly refused. This means that I am fully liable for all the mortgage payments- if he refused to pay or simply moved out, there would be nothing I could do about it. In addition to overpayments and basic monthly payments to the mortgage, I also pay for the house contents insurance, the buildings insurance, life insurance and mortgage payment protection insurance. If he were to decide to divorce me, even though I soley am legally responsible for the mortgage (he's signed a Deed of Consent)- he could make a claim on half the equity! This is not fair and anyone who thinks that it is needs their heads checking!
Bil2

It seems to me that part of my post is even more relevant in that you need to sit down with him and get him to understand that you don't buy a house and build a home just by paying half the mortgage, then when he is pulling his weight as much as you are you can both get to the situation where the points in my first post would no longer be relevant and you would have a better foundation on which to build a long and happy future together.
And please don't label me as one of your "critics", I genuinely hope you can resolve the problems you have, at the end of the day they aren't that difficult to sort.

Gorgeous_George

If you withdraw the overpayments they will be form part of the settlement and could be split 50/50 unless you have some form of agreement that they are outside of the marriage. Just the same as the house so probably no point withdrawing the money.

I think you should be focussing your mind on building a successful marriage rather than worrying about the cost of divorce. If you are really worried, speak to a solicitor but beware, your husband may feel the need to move on because of the lack of trust. That would, in part, be your fault.



GG