Public Sector workers laughing all the way to the bank

Harry_Powell

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I understand that my local authority (and many more) actually payout more on police pensions that they do paying the wages of the current force.

And it's only going to get worse, especially if we're all living longer (or so the government maintain to justify increasing my retirement age to 68 and soon to 70). We could be in the situation that police officers are retired for longer than they actually worked and that there will be exponentially more retiree's than serving officers.

It's a good reflection of the state retirement ponzi scheme, that's also going to be increasingly unsustainable.

tek-monkey

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Because that's the effective employer contribution and a FS pension is part of the total remuneration package. Unions tell us that pensions are really simply deferred pay.

So you are saying that the employer contributes 20% of your salary to a pension scheme, when you contribute 7%? Is this right? Too late to do the maths, but for a 7% contribution I get 1/60 of my final salary as my pension. Does that add up? Although at 33 and just started I wont be reaching full pension!

mrstinchcombe

Turnbull2000 wrote: »

That would all be nice if that 11% actually came close to covering the true cost of their pension. It doesn't. They should be contributing three times that amount, minimum.

Secondly, police pay has risen quite nicely in real terms since 1997 - well ahead of most other earners - so 11% is hardly a burden.

This 11% and a full pension after 30 years is out of date information. Police Pensions have changed to reflect the change in times so the pension isn't as good any more.

To clarify contributions are now 9.5%, single accrual rate of 1/70 final salary with full pension after 35 years nowadays. Theres also a lump sum of 4 x the pension. Its alright but "gold plated" it aint.

Police wages are hardly spectacular given the job they do so freezing them isn't a fair burden, and they have risen on a par with many parts of the private sector since 1997.

Turnbull2000

mrstinchcombe wrote: »

This 11% and a full pension after 30 years is out of date information. Police Pensions have changed to reflect the change in times so the pension isn't as good any more.

To clarify contributions are now 9.5%, single accrual rate of 1/70 final salary with full pension after 35 years nowadays. Theres also a lump sum of 4 x the pension. Its alright but "gold plated" it aint.

Police wages are hardly spectacular given the job they do so freezing them isn't a fair burden, and they have risen on a par with many parts of the private sector since 1997.

9.5% contributions are still way too low to justify the eventual payout.

Also, police pay has risen nearly 40% since 1999, well ahead of inflation and well ahead of private sector pay.

donaldtramp

From Old Slapheads link:

Figures released by the government in answer to parliamentary questions show the police pension funding gap has more than doubled in two years. They show that last year the Home Office paid a special grant of £481m to fill a yawning gap in pension scheme funding, up from £201m in 2006-07.
The shortfall is all the more concerning given that the government introduced new measures to overhaul the police pension fund three years ago. Despite the changes, the fund now requires massive financial support from the taxpayer.
According to the Lib Dem Treasury spokesman, Lord Oakeshott, under the old pension scheme, a constable who retires after 30 years' service on a final salary of almost £36,000 can expect to draw an annual pension of just under £24,000. Oakeshott estimates that this would cost just over £1m to fund. "We pay twice for police pensions," Oakeshott said. "First through council tax and then as income taxpayers, too."

£1 MILLION to fund a constables pension? Are you having a laugh?
Cut their pensions now and make them work the same time as the rest of the population.

In fact make them work! instead of the Stalinesque way they go about their jobs just now.
Too busy form filling, raiding the private apartments of MPs, enforcing the thousands of new laws that Zanu Labour have brought in since they got into power. Criminalising all of us in the process.
Yup, we are sleepwalking into a control state and we're paying for the privilege!!!
That's what happens when we allow a massive bloated state to take over.
Cut the pensions and the control they have over our lives.
The state needs a massive dose of realism injected.

Andy_L

tek-monkey wrote: »

So you are saying that the employer contributes 20% of your salary to a pension scheme, when you contribute 7%? Is this right? Too late to do the maths, but for a 7% contribution I get 1/60 of my final salary as my pension. Does that add up? Although at 33 and just started I wont be reaching full pension!

It's close enough for discussion purposes. the current total cost varies between 15-25% (even higher for early NRA schemes like the police/military)
The exact number depending on stuff like age, sex (women live longer so cost more), career path (if you don't get regular career progression FS isn't that great) and then current assumptions on life expectancy & investment returns

Andy_L

Harry_Powell wrote: »

Why not?

All we hear these days is that the police are snowed under with paperwork, perhaps there is a case that experienced officers over 55 could take on this mountain of paperwork, releasing the younger officers to do the leg work.

Unfortunately though that then blocks promotion opportunities for the younger generation which discourages retention

CLAPTON

mrstinchcombe wrote: »

This 11% and a full pension after 30 years is out of date information. Police Pensions have changed to reflect the change in times so the pension isn't as good any more.

To clarify contributions are now 9.5%, single accrual rate of 1/70 final salary with full pension after 35 years nowadays. Theres also a lump sum of 4 x the pension. Its alright but "gold plated" it aint.

Police wages are hardly spectacular given the job they do so freezing them isn't a fair burden, and they have risen on a par with many parts of the private sector since 1997.

a police officer starting at 20 could therefore retire at 55 on half pension plus a tax free lump sum of 2 x annual salary, with the pension indexed linked for life

believe me that is gold plating...

lets say he was earning 40k in todays values

to buy that sort of pension at 55 years would cost about £1 million

if he had contributed 9.5% for 35 years even at 40k that would be £133k

not a bad return and definitely gold plated.

donaldtramp

Have a look at the data compiled from Freedom of Information requests by the taxpayers alliance on the payments taken (very quietly of course) from Council tax in your area to pay public sector pensions.

In my area it is £100 for every man, woman and child every year DIRECTLY from Council tax.
How much is your contribution?
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/CSU2-pensions.pdf

This simply can't continue.

Old_Slaphead

donaldtramp wrote: »

Have a look at the data compiled from Freedom of Information requests by the taxpayers alliance on the payments taken (very quietly of course) from Council tax in your area to pay public sector pensions.

In my area it is £100 for every man, woman and child every year DIRECTLY from Council tax.
How much is your contribution?
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/CSU2-pensions.pdf

This simply can't continue.

Just to add a little more salt to the wound, LG pensions are massively underfunded (but hey, unlike most other public sector schemes, they are at least partly funded) - the next 3 yearly funding reviewl, due in md 2010, will reveal the true state of the gaping deficit