Impending separation - please help!

hugh_jarse

Well it looks like my marriage is finished. Wife decides she doesn't want me around any more so its over. So far we've talked about 50% time each with the kids (age 11 and 12) and live a horrible separate existence in the same house for the time being. My problem is that I know shes lying to me and that makes me think why should I lose any time with my kids at all. IMO she is willing to give up half a week with them while I am not. I thought she was going off with someone else. She denied this point blank, but I was suspicious of the way she was acting (its happened before) and I managed to see one of her emails in which shes asked her friend to fix her up with a bloke from work. Now my question is - do I bring this up and admit I've been snooping? If so, how? Would it make any difference or should I just take the 50% time in case I end up with less? All I can think about is how its going to affect my children while she thinks of herself first.Last time it nearly happened we said we'd stay together till the kids were older (I was thinking 18) and I put up with a rubbish relationship for their sake, which I'm still willing to do. Apparently she isnt. If we sort our finances out between us is there any need for the csa to be involved? I dont even know what I need to look out for when renting a house cos I've never done it before.Any other help you can think of please chuck it this way cos I need it.

Eels100

Just wanted to offer you a hug for a start:grouphug:

I can't offer much by way of advice, but I would say that if you are sure that your relationship is over then bringing up what you've found out about her behaviour with a man at work is probably pointless - it will only serve to upset you and probably inflame her.

I would suggest you perhaps sit down with her and have a frank discussion about how you are going to live until you can arrange separate homes - this could include general rules about things, for example you might agree not to bring other partners into the house, or agree to a rota for eg shopping/taking the kids out so you can both have time alone at home.

In terms of access and finances, I would suggest you get advice from the Citizens' Advice Bureau as soon as possible.

Good luck.

hugh_jarse

Thanks for the hug:) its been a long time!!
Yes we are hopefully going to talk everything through and go to CAB and make an arrangement. i have a couple of other questions though if no-one minds - Assuming a house value of 120k on a mortgage of 80k, if she keeps our house how do we work out a fair split (she is looking at extending mortgge term to 30 years from the 22 left). Plus does the fact she is on Prozac have any bearing on anything if she decided to go through the courts? Would it make my case any stronger? I've just got a nasty feeling its all going to get very bitter. Shes got all her family telling her stuff, I've not even told anyone whats happening yet! I think I'm still in denial, I feel absolutely sick, not eating, not sleeping.

rchddap1

My partner and his ex wife split quite a few years ago and now only sees his daughter every other weekend. However, his relationship with her is very strong. For a while he was asked if mum and dad would get back together, but when the she realised that this would mean living with more arguements and distress it was quickly understood that this was the best way.

Don't assume that your kids haven't noticed that something is going on and that mum and dad aren't happy. I'll bet that they have. Daughter certainly did and it will affect them.

Just because 'tradition' says that kids need both a mother and a father who are together this isn't necessarily the best thing for them. In my partner's case his daughter needed a father who was happy (the same goes for her mum)...and this meant that they were apart.

I'd also be careful of using you kids as an 'excuse' to take the easy route. It can be very hard for a kids during a breakup so please try to keep them out of it completely.

Also, if your wife has decided that her marriage is over then she can go out with whoever she chooses. Confronting her with your snooping is not going to help your situation...in fact it is likely to drive her further away from you. If you still love her, then talk to her....if not you need to sit down and decide whether simply staying together could actually hurt your kids.

Edit: I can understand you feeling sick, but the best thing you can do is talk to a solicitor quick. You will need one anyway. Then if she says anything to you that you don't want to talk about use the "talk to my solicitor". My partner found them a very useful tool to stop a nasty argument. My partner's divorce could have been extremely messsy and bitter, but he took a deap breath....and kept things calm for his daughter's sake. Afterall, it takes 2 to have an argument.

As far as the house...the usual way is to split the equity 50:50. Then if she chooses to get a mortgage for the house under her name alone then that is her choice.

hugh_jarse

With regard to keeping the kids out of it - I would do anything to make things easier on them. I'm sure they have noticed things are a bit strange at the moment - all we've told them so far is that their mum needs some time for herself sometimes. I think it is more or less decided now that we are going our separate ways -we have now realyy but still living together which is very awkward. I will have to rent somewhere hopefully nearby so I am handy for the kids. I know I'm going to end up massively in debt to keep up the kids standard of living so her house is not full of all the stuff I'VE bought over the years and mine is empty( I buy ALL xmas /birthday presents/holidays - we have booked one for July so dont know whats happening with that yet) - one of her new complaints is that she thinks shes working harder than me for the future(shes doing a degree) so she'll presumably have greater earning potential than me, probably redundant in the next 18 months at 39 with no real skills to fall back on. If I can get enough out of the house to subsidise my rent for a few years so I can provide for my children until they are in jobs themselves I'll be happy, or am I being over optimistic there? Sorry for all the long posts but it feels like I'm talking to someone on here

rchddap1

My partner left his ex wife with nothing. The flat was in negative equity and all he was was a little job. He started by going back and living with his mother believe it or not. All he had was the clothes on his back, and nothing else. His daughter knew that things would have to change....there was no point in discuising that fact. He never tried to 'buy' her happiness with stuff that he couldn't afford....she was happy if he was. End of.

Your wife may be doing a degree....good on her, but that doesn't mean that you're working less hard than her. Your lives are going in a different direction. If you've decided to split then the direction her life takes is her affair and the same vice versa. As long as your kids have a roof, and are clothed, fed and watered then that's what matters. In fact I'd worry how she is going to get a mortgage for £100k if she isn't working full time.

However, I would encourage you to seek out a new life for yourself. I know its hard to imagine now, but you will build something new. Simply sitting around in a rented house all day waiting for your wife / ex wife or kids to say jump is my idea of hell. In fact for a while that's what happened to my partner. However, he quickly realised that he needed a life of his own.

His daughter was happy as long as he was. As he was earning we could take her places and he could have fun with her. He made his time with her as fun as he could possibly make it. Daughter wanted to spend time with her Dad, to both of this didn't mean shopping, but having fun, and talking and listening to each other.

If she wanted anything then she had her pocket money that he gave her. For anything else she'd have to 'bargain' with her dad for. Even now we don't have much of her stuff here. But that's because he only has her every other weekend. So she got more use out of 'stuff' if she took it home. Given time you'll find out what works....everyone just needs a bit of time to sort their heads out.

This is a hard time for everyone and you must take things at your own pace. It will be hard right now for you to imagine the future, but you will find your own path in your own time.

Eels100

hugh_jarse wrote:

With regard to keeping the kids out of it - I would do anything to make things easier on them. I'm sure they have noticed things are a bit strange at the moment - all we've told them so far is that their mum needs some time for herself sometimes.

Please make it a priority to come to some basic agreements with your wife because you have to tell the kids soon. At 11 and 12 they'll have a spectacularly good idea that there's something wrong, and they'll be worrying about all sorts of things - it's amazing how much a young child can feel responsible for people in their life. It's vital that you sit down and explain to them that Mum and Dad aren't getting on so well any more, and that although you both love them more than ever, you don't want to be together. You need to lay out in clear terms exactly what is and isn't going to happen without making promises that can't be kept. Honesty is probably the best thing you can give them at their age - they will feel much more secure if they know you are being honest with them.

hugh_jarse

Actually wife works full time and does degree part time. She resents the fact I have a better relationship with the kids than she does - I make them laugh and can relax with them, take an interest in what they do etc etc while with her everything has got to be "worthy" and structured and have a point. I think kids should be enjoying themselves as much as possible. Obviously there are serious things in life, like school etc and I know my responsibilities too but I go out of my way to entertain them when I can. She puts work first. When we go to do anything she always stays in so she cant say shes not been included - its been her choice, just like its her choice to separate. In fact she has always been a right selfish cow in a number of ways really and I've just put up with it. Infact \I know I've been a bit of a mug - I've gone out of my way to do whatever she wants and I never ask her for anything (she'd only say no anyway!!). Sorry, starting to get angry again now so I'll stop and take a deep breath. Thanks again for all the replies and any future ones I appreciate them all

wigginsmum

Hugh - whatever you do, don't make the mistake of throwing all your money into the kids. My DH did this when his first marriage ended - it didn't stop him feeling guilty over the split (even though it was her choice). He cried in my arms on the first Christmas morning after they split.

The best thing he did was maintain a good relationship with the kids - he's spoken to them on the phone every evening for the past 8 years, they come to stay regularly, and we now have an excellent relationship with his ex-wife - she and her new baby came to our wedding. Accept that things are going to be very difficult while you're living under the same roof - my DH did it for 6 months. Once you do actually live apart, some of the pressure will be off. In order not to cause extra upheaval for the kids, we would stay there one weekend, and she and her boyfriend the next. The kids have since said they appreciated it (they were 4 and 8 at the time) because it felt like they had 4 parents.

And don't be scared of the future - it is frightening to suddenly have your family and home split when your whole mental and emotional energy have been invested in 'family building,' but you will survive it, get another place and build an enjoyable life for yourself. Roll with the bumps for a while - this situation isn't easy on anyone. If at all possible, don't be spiteful to your wife - I truly understand the temptation, but if you can keep things on a neutral keel, it'll be less stressful for you. My DH was told 'I've met a new guy that I'm in love with, so you need to get out and get a life because I'm going to leave you.' And that's exactly what he did - he didn't want to, he was committed to staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids. For a couple of years he had worked fulltime and babysat every evening, so she could enjoy her non-working and then go out in the evening and find guys. It didn't do a lot for his self-esteem. But once he accepted it really was going to end, it was only a matter of weeks before he met me in a pub. Rebound relationships can be very tricky but ours has lasted.

So hang in there - it will get better but you have a few bumps to negotiate in the meantime. Check your private messages.

ben500

I don't envy your position I have been through similar circumstances myself and survived so there is hope. I would say though that if you are sure the relationship has irretreivably broken down that the sooner you part company with your ex the better, to reside in the same home after a split is going to cause an extreme amount of stress on your children, whilst you and your partner may feel you are acting amicably together as two seperated adults within the same home your children will almost certainly view it as "a phase they are going through" and be hopeful of a reunion and in most cases actively encourage it, as for the degree I'm pretty confident that your contribution to her success in that is probably a lot greater than you actually realise, I bet you have never felt that you could justify taking time out to further your own education as your household income would not then have sustained the luxury, I know in my case almost all of my leisure time was consumed by household chores which my partner relinquished whilst studying, effectively she shut down unless she was studying being the only driver in the house I was also expected to ferry her back and forth to the college eight miles away each evening this also disrupted the children's routine for the duration of the courses, my life was on hold and hers was rocketing and I was unceremoniously dumped once the graduation certificate was in hand, I'm not suggesting the circumstances are identical but I can see similarities in the information you have already provided, I would suggest you make the split as swiftly and surgically as possible bearing in mind wherever you move you are going to need a "home" to provide comfort and succor to your children, if you are not comfortable they won't be, be wary of doing the "right thing" and leaving all worldly goods behind for fear of disrupting the home environment, it is a lot harder for your children to arrive for a visit and witness you slumming itthan to lose a few of the homely trinkets and besides they will still benefit from those items on visits anyway and they will provide familiar surroundings for them in what will be a strange and alien environment, its a good idea too to not go overboard on access visits as this tends to encourage a mercenary attitude from our children and certainly on the ex partners part, it's a common mistake made by absent parents they feel they have to make up for time lost, you don't your children will only get confused if you go down this road and in the worst case scenario see you as an open wallet especially as this is often encouraged by the resident parent, "I can't afford it see your father/mother" there are plenty of activities for visits without going broke or inadvertantly altering the mindset of your children, avoid reprimanding the children for transgressions in your absence but deal with any transgressions on visits in the same manner you would now, (don't go soft on them because you miss them and feel guilty about absentia) they will appreciate the continuity and grow a lot healthier and responsible if not tempted to become mercenary, definately do not criticise your partner to them or in their presence it will do nobody any good and undermine both yourself and your partner, by all means discuss any difficuties with your partner but not on the doorstep! Don't be turned into a babysitter!!! set defined times for visits and NEVER alter the pattern to suit the social life of your partner as you will find as soon as you cannot accomadate you will then become the evil dad who doesn't want to see his kids, your a father NOT a babysitter and your children need to see this, I would also recommend that if it appears the children are not being given a choice as to whether they visit (because your partner is going out/training/shopping /dating etc) quite often the children will be told "well you have to go this week because........." If you accomodate this kind of activity your relationship with your children will degrade rapidly as they will come to resent every visit as children they are automatically geared up to test boundaries and perhaps the following week when mums not arranged anything they will bargain for that week off which results in your access being disrupted twice, the first time because the child is there under duress and the second because of the absence whilst the mother makes up for the previous weeks transgression.

Having spent the last 24 years as an absent parent I can tell you that as daunting as it may seem to you now there is a huge light at the end of that tunnel just squint a little and you will see it.

This may sound harsh but the reality now is that your family dynamics have changed you are now a separate family unit, you and the children must find your own way to accomodate each other and often times this will be despite the actions of your ex rather than with her co-operation so long as you bear this in mind you should be able to maintain a stable and continuous relationship with your children and hopefully the scars that remain with them in adulthood will be minimal and not something to dwell on and fear in their own relationships to come.


If you are a "wait till your father gets home" family this must stop the day you walk out the door or things will deteriorate between your children and yourself very quickly as you are greeted with a list of transgressions since your last visit to mete out punishment and your children wait in fear of your arrival in the knowledge of this, my children spent years feeding ducks, fishing, country walking etc etc all activities with minimal expense, every penny I would have spent was secreted in savings accounts for them and handed over when they were mature and independant enough to put it to good use, I never felt any guilt about this and in fact in enhanced my relationship with them as the time I spent with them was of a far higher quality than had we been bouncing in and out of McDonalds, Thorpe park etc etc, your kids want to see a happy daddy not a stressed out workaholic with no time to spend WITH them in order to spend ON them, my oldest is now 29 the next oldest is 28 and I have discussed their childhood with them at length since (as like most absent parents I always worried if I was doing the right thing by them) and I have been more than happy with the way they viewed things at the time, the one thing they are both resolute on is that the access time they had was perfect for them as the quality was maintained by the time dedicated to them rather than the finances, they also mentioned that at times they had overheard our doorstep "discussions" when I would refuse to take them for access because it was apparent one or both of them were being made to come along under duress to accomodate the mothers plans this reassured them at the time that they could communicate their feelings to me without actually stating them and avoided them becoming resentful of visits.

I'm sorry if I've rambled a bit but your post brought back a lot of memories for me and the question of access is probably the most important one you will have to resolve yet unlikely to find a good deal of advice on how you can make it work for you and your children.


My eldest has found out since adulthood that our marriage broke down because of his mothers infidelity and the one question he wanted an answer to was why didn't I defend myself when his mother was telling him that I was to blame for the breakdown and had walked out and deserted her left her in the lurch etc etc etc why did you let us think these things about you? my answer was that it wasn't their busines their busines was to be children to be reckless, feel immortal, fall over and cry, play, study etc to offer explanations to my children would have been to involve them im my turmoil in order to satisfy my own ego, and would also have required me to give them information which would have been highly critical of their mother (who was raising them at the time and needed their respect even if not deserving of it) I am lucky in that all bar one of my children have now left home and are thriving as adults and have all maintained daily contact, the remaining child is now resident with myself as unfortunately these days kids are far more savvy and he has done his own research with his elder brothers, he grills me on a regular basis as to why I will not discuss his mum in a negative way (he knows far too much for a young teenager) he is currently very angry at the way he feels he has been misled by his mum for years and probably equally as angry with me for not defending myself and justifying my actions to him in the past and allowing him to feel ill of me but he will get over this as he matures, what's more important to me is that he finishes his education and matures and blossoms as his siblings have.

I'm not even going to read this through before posting as I know I would most probably delete most of it if I did the management of children after the event is seldomly broached upon by most because of the reactions it will receive in such a public forum as all breakups are different and people start getting defensive, I worried day and night that the measures I was taking were the right ones and that my children would grow up disliking me for it as adults they have given me all the assurance I needed then albeit a little late that they respect the sacrifices I made in order to maintain contact and a positive influence in their lives. It is not going to be easy but it is do-able and most of the time extremely rewarding in fact if anything the split up enhanced my relationship with my children as it made me sit up and realise the rat race was no longer important and I became far less selfish

Anniek1969

Have you discussed who the kids are going to live with? as their older there's a fair chance that if it goes to a lawyer they'll take the kids opinions into consideration. My brother and his wife split up and the kids went to stay with him and it was very difficult at first as she had no interest in them and had left him with a lot of debt. Eventually his son went to live with his mum and his daughter stayed with him, that was 5 years ago now and her mum has absolutely no contact with her through her own choice. He occasionally gets a drunken phonecall from her demanding to speak to her daughter but my niece refuses to speak to her. At one point she instructed her lawyer to start custody proceedings for her daughter who was at the time about 10 or 11 (she's 13 now) and his lawyer told him not to worry as they would talk to her and ask what she wanted and would consider this when making a decision. It never went that far and now as she's 13 he's been told that when the divorce goes through later this year they won't even consider giving her custody.

I know we can only hear your side of things but it does sound as if your wife is pretty selfish and the fact that she's already thinking about moving on to another relationship IMO means that she isn't putting the kids first. It's going to be a pretty hard time for you all but the kids are going to suffer too so I think you really need to talk to them. I bet you'd be surprised at how much they already know, I've got a 13yr old and an 11yr old and any time me and HB have an argument about something they always know we've had a fight even when they're not in the house.

You should get a solicitor but try and find one that specialises in family law as you might need that if she decides to become nasty about seeing the kids. I hope you can sort this out amicably as it sounds like you are willing to do this but don't sell yourself short, sometimes being with the mother isn't always what's best for the kids. You might even be able to agree shared custody without the help of a solicitor which would save you a lot of money but you would be better to get help to sort out your finances.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, you will go on and have a new life eventually. My brother was absolutely useless at being on his own and now 5 years on he loves his new life and has a new girlfriend so believe me when I say if he can do anybody can.