Unenforceability & Template Letters II

Hyipper

I wish that I had had the sense to look through these forums before.

I am looking for some advice. I have 5 Credit Card Debts which add up to slightly in excess of £36,000.
I have very little income.
Early this year I wrote to them all and negotiated a minimal monthly repayment amount and they stopped charging interest but I do keep getting letters asking whether my situation has improved. One has started just charging interest again, albeit a minimal rate.
I have had these credit cards for many years, well before 2007. Three of the five have been passed on from one lender to another.

My questions are -:
Should I go down the unenforceable route or not?
As they have been passed on, is it more likely that they will not be able to come up with the original agreements?
If I do, are they likely to stop my current arrangement with them? I do not want to rock the boat if I could lose out big time from it.
I am not sure what they could ultimately do as I do not have any assets.

I would appreciate a little help please.

never-in-doubt

They cannot do anything mate. Go down unenforceable route if you want, the worse they can do is default you. They cannot break in to your home or 'sue' you or anything......

As part of unenforceability, you need to be prepared to rock the boat and stop payments - are you prepared to do this? Also means no credit for 6 years?

captainhaggis

Hyipper wrote: »

I am looking for some advice. I have 5 Credit Card Debts which add up to slightly in excess of £36,000.

Granted, we - the consumer - have a lot to answer for, but to give someone (this isn't a dig at you, H, cos I have a similar amount of debt on cards) this level of credit on plastic cards shows how irresponsibly the banks have loaned money in the past.

They deserve a good kicking, just as most of us have taken through other methods.

leemuddywaters

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya

Have they not replied to this letter? If not, send a gentle reminder with another copy of it asking them to get back to you asap......

Regards to crappy1, just leave them for now - it's like banging your head against a wall.... So the letter (RMA) is for egg right? Crappy1 is sorted isn't it, i.e. defaulted and settled?

Cheers! No they have not replied to the offer as yet, yes the letter to RMA is for Egg, The capital one is a settled default yes.

rolleypolleypud

Hi

I'm wondering if someone could give me some advice?
I sent the first template letter off to Lewis debt recovery who have been passed an account of mine from Next Directory along with the £1 cheque which they have cashed and today I have recieved a letter from Next Directory saying this..............

Find enclosed a a true copy of the credit agreement. We are satisfied that this meets with our obligations under section 78 of the consumer credit act.

By way of explanation under section 78 of the consumer credit act, Next must supply the customer with a true copy of their credit agreement upon request.
For the purpose of of section 78a, a true copy need not be an exact copy or photocopy, as long as it contains every material provision of the agreement signed. This means that it does not need to have non-statutory information which was included for the creditors own benefit or signature boxes. Therefore Next are not required to provide you with a signed copy of the agreement and this is made clear in section 3(2) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations. We are required to provise you with a true copy and a true copy is enclosed.

They have sent me this letter with a photocopy of there credit agreement stapled to the back. There are signature spaces on this credit agreement but they are empty and does not include my signature anywhere.

Is this the end of this claim or can I go further? I thought they did have to provided me with my signed copy of this agreement????

never-in-doubt

rolleypolleypud wrote: »

Hi

I'm wondering if someone could give me some advice?
I sent the first template letter off to Lewis debt recovery who have been passed an account of mine from Next Directory along with the £1 cheque which they have cashed and today I have recieved a letter from Next Directory saying this..............

Find enclosed a a true copy of the credit agreement. We are satisfied that this meets with our obligations under section 78 of the consumer credit act.

They have sent me this letter with a photocopy of there credit agreement stapled to the back. There are signature spaces on this credit agreement but they are empty and does not include my signature anywhere.

Is this the end of this claim or can I go further? I thought they did have to provided me with my signed copy of this agreement????

Did you apply online? If so then they make have the 'tick in the box' so check the CCA again, but in theory they can reconstruct the CCA so long as it looks identical to the original with the same terms in place (called a true copy).

For them to send a true copy it would appear they may not have the original. So i'd send this back to them:

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

On xx/xx/xxxx I wrote requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for the above numbered account. In response to this request I was supplied the document, a copy of which is attached, which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

The document you sent, purporting to be a credit agreement, does not contain all of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor is it signed or dated by either of us. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say, all of the required terms are not present in this document. Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of OFT guidelines. These guidelines (issued July 2003/updated December 2006) relate to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant, and signed, copy of the credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt. If you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to the relevant governing authorities.

Since the agreement is unenforceable, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages.

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

never-in-doubt

rolleypolleypud wrote: »

Hi

I've been following this thread for a while and i'm just wondering if someone could give me some advice?

Hiya - did you ever sort this out? My response here: #525

Dojo_Jo_Jo

Hi All,

For all of those people fed up with the constant hassle from these companies whilst they try and wriggle out of their responsibilities, I have the answer!

Forget BT, long term expensive and very inflexible.

I have just bought TrueCall (best price on the net £78.99 from www.cordless-phones.uk.com 0845 3890080).

It is amazing and worth every penny of the investment to stop my heart pounding with anger and anxiety from 8am to 9pm whilst these companies hassle me.

Firstly you put in all the numbers that you are happy to receive calls from and you continue to use your phone as normal. Then you programme all of the numbers you want to 'zap' and when they call they are automatically played a curt, to the point message to bog off! It can be configured to suit EVERY situation, believe me. And when a new caller rings, you get told who it is and can press one key on your phone and they are added to your zap list automatically without you having to talk to them!!!

I HAVE PEACE , QUIET AND MY SANITY BACK!

(No I don't have shares in the company, but wish I did!)

Quick update, all 8 of the agencies I sent my template letters to on advice from Niddy, have not sent a copy of my original CCA but have stopped sending chase up mail. Hoorah :T

Dojo_Jo_Jo

daz10277 wrote: »

Hiya NID

I know I shouldn't worry so much, easier said than done sometimes!

Their number always comes up withheld so I don't think I can't ban it.

Thanks for the letter although I sent the CCA request query letter to the DCA not the OC (HBOS). Should I send it to them instead?

Cheers

See my thread today 4.19pm. This product DOES deal with withhelds, international and number unavailable!

I should be on commission, but I cannot tell you the relief this little machine has given me.

Hope this helps.

never-in-doubt

Dojo_Jo_Jo wrote: »

Hi All,

I have just bought TrueCall (best price on the net £78.99 from

Quick update, all 8 of the agencies I sent my template letters to on advice from Niddy, have not sent a copy of my original CCA but have stopped sending chase up mail. Hoorah :T

Lol, nice bit of advertising I see

CAG promote this as well; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=167&a=143

However its not ideal cos you must tell the companies you're recording them or it will be inadmissible in court - but good luck with it...... :D

BT though, is cheaper as you get call screening for free and pay for choose to refuse - after a couple of months they stop calling you anyway when they realise they can't get through! See here: #639