Unenforceability & Template Letters II

k4j

Hi N I D,

Just to let you know that I have so far recieved replies from two cards, one store card and the other one barclays. The store card has just given me a copy of the application form with my signature and they have returned the postal order that i sent them. It says on the letter " I have returned the postal order for £1 as the payees name has been ommitted". I forgot to write my name on the back of it!
Do i send them back the postal order with the next letter?
And regarding the reply form barclaycard...it just looks like the normal junk that they send everyone. It does not have my signature or any of the things you mentioned to look out for.
Thanks

never-in-doubt

k4j wrote: »

Hi N I D,

Just to let you know that I have so far recieved replies from two cards, one store card and the other one barclays. The store card has just given me a copy of the application form with my signature and they have returned the postal order that i sent them. It says on the letter " I have returned the postal order for £1 as the payees name has been ommitted". I forgot to write my name on the back of it!

The payee is who the cheque/PO is made out to, so it would be on the front and have their name in that field - you do not need to put your name on the payment cos it isn't for you - however, save your money - they do not have a CCA do they? Thus they sent T&C's...

Send the following letter to them:

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account

I note that you have replied to my CCA Request by sending a copy of Terms & Conditions and not a True Copy of the alleged Consumer Credit Agreement, in line with my formal request. As such, I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a 'true copy' of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

Section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of Document Regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be mentioned, which are;

Section 2(2) (a)

A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b)
A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document, the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions. It does, however, state that 'all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented'.

In either case, please confirm that you have, in your possession, a credit agreement that is in all ways fully compliant with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, as amended, and the subsequent regulations made there under. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are in possession of such a document, but are unable to supply me with a true copy of it, please outline your reasons why you are unable to supply it to me in your reply.

Furthermore, I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

I look forward to your response within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Sign digitally

k4j wrote: »

Do i send them back the postal order with the next letter?

No, you send the letter above and leave it - see what they say (they will come back with, sorry we do not have an agreement and therefore this is unenforceable or similar)....

k4j wrote: »

And regarding the reply form barclaycard...it just looks like the normal junk that they send everyone. It does not have my signature or any of the things you mentioned to look out for. Thanks

Send the following letter to Barclaycard: 3. CCA Query

Grifter09

Hi NID, I have started the ball rolling with the lovely people at MBNA and it is all going well so far. They don't appear to have a CCA for me and the calls have pretty much stopped.

I also have a Barclaycard with about 10K on it and was intending of going down the same unenforceability route BUT......I have a Barclays current account with an overdraft. I have tried to open a back up current account but no one will touch me (defaults). Do you think that starting unenforceability with Barclaycard will result in my Barclays account being closed/frozen?? I need a bank account somewhere as I rely heavily on internet banking.

the other problem is the credit agencies won't supply me with a credit report because I have a postal redirection in place on mortgaged flat because im renting it out as im currently living in Spain. Any ideas?

never-in-doubt

Grifter09 wrote: »

Hi NID, I have started the ball rolling with the lovely people at MBNA and it is all going well so far. They don't appear to have a CCA for me and the calls have pretty much stopped.

I also have a Barclaycard with about 10K on it and was intending of going down the same unenforceability route BUT......I have a Barclays current account with an overdraft. I have tried to open a back up current account but no one will touch me (defaults). Do you think that starting unenforceability with Barclaycard will result in my Barclays account being closed/frozen?? I need a bank account somewhere as I rely heavily on internet banking.

the other problem is the credit agencies won't supply me with a credit report because I have a postal redirection in place on mortgaged flat because im renting it out as im currently living in Spain. Any ideas?

Hiya mate,

Ok, regards to Barclays if you stop paying the card they will use RoSo (right of set off) to recoup the funds from your other accounts with them. If you cannot open an account elsewhere then i'd hold fire....

However, you may have to consider a basic account, try coop or Natwest.... whatever you do don't play silly beggars with your main bank, it just aint worth it mate.

You can only get a credit report in the UK and cannot have them redirected - this is to stop fraud mate or it'd be sooo easy to copy an ID. Basically, you need to use the online one and cancel within the month or whatever!

smifff_2

Hi, got reply from Barclays today about the ccs' request for Barclaycard and Mastercard. Standard letters saying they have fully met the request and I should continue paying or they may default me. all they sent was photo copies of standard terms and conds.
Could the superhero that goes by the name of NID please have a look at the copies in photobucket for me, thanks in advance

assume I send the 2nd cca request now do I.

sorry I've had to pm you the link nid cos i'm not allowed to post links on the thread

THnx

never-in-doubt

smifff wrote: »

assume I send the 2nd cca request now do I.

Yes mate - 3. CCA Query

rolleypolleypud

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Did you apply online? If so then they make have the 'tick in the box' so check the CCA again, but in theory they can reconstruct the CCA so long as it looks identical to the original with the same terms in place (called a true copy).

For them to send a true copy it would appear they may not have the original. So i'd send this back to them:

Hi NID thank you for your help.

I didn't apply online as way back then I didn't have the internet. Can't really remember how I got an account just had a cataloge turn up one day and it went from there. I did have a store card with them which I used to use alot but last year I paid off what I believed was the full balance of £1000. They say I have ordered since then and they have a signature for delivery of items ordered since then but I have not ordered them. They don't believe me and have forwarded it onto the debt company.

I will send the above letter to them and keep my fingers crossed.

rolleypolleypud

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya - did you ever sort this out? My response here: #525

I'm still trying to deal with these sh1ts sorry people but its like banging your head against a brick wall. Its just going round and round in circles I've given up trying to talk to them on the phone it just makes me sooooooooo mad. I'm just going to wait until the next letter comes saying exactly the same thing as last time and I will send my letter back also saying the same thing as last time until I either win the lotto or they are willing to listen:mad::mad::mad:

Thank you again NID for all your help you really are an asset to this forum!!

never-in-doubt

rolleypolleypud wrote: »

I'm still trying to deal with these sh1ts sorry people but its like banging your head against a brick wall. Its just going round and round in circles I've given up trying to talk to them on the phone it just makes me sooooooooo mad. I'm just going to wait until the next letter comes saying exactly the same thing as last time and I will send my letter back also saying the same thing as last time until I either win the lotto or they are willing to listen:mad::mad::mad:

Thank you again NID for all your help you really are an asset to this forum!!

Hiya

Ok well just send the letter and start to ignore them. If it becomes unbearable then we can look at doing a specific letter to get rid once and for all. If you know you never ordered then sod em, they cannot prove anything!

Numpty_Monkey

Hi Nid Just had a letter back from Martian in responce to the CCA reminder
They have put the accounts on hold until they get the documents from OC:rolleyes:
I'll just wait till the 30 days are up and then send number 4:D:beer: