Unenforceability & Template Letters II

never-in-doubt

I'll come back to you on this mate - would like to check with Fermi cos he will know more about this, I am getting nothing relevant on my schedule 3 so its slightly puzzling right now....

PM sent to Fermi.....

Goodtimesahead

never-in-doubt wrote: »

I'll come back to you on this mate - would like to check with Fermi cos he will know more about this, I am getting nothing relevant on my schedule 3 so its slightly puzzling right now....

PM sent to Fermi.....

NID :T Its from Nat West Credit Card Services, I don't like the idea of them having a cunning plan to stuff me with an enforceable agreement, I thought I was on the home run with that old an agreement :eek:

fermi

never-in-doubt wrote: »

I'll come back to you on this mate - would like to check with Fermi cos he will know more about this, I am getting nothing relevant on my schedule 3 so its slightly puzzling right now....

With regards to the assertion in post #407, they seem to be referring to section 9 of the copy document regulations.

From: Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

9 Copies of old agreements and security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been lost etc

Any copy of an executed agreement made before 19th May 1985 or of a security instrument relating to security provided before that date which is given to the debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act on or after that date may comprise an easily legible statement of the current terms of the agreement or security as the case may be insofar as they are known to the creditor or owner where, due to an accident or some other cause beyond his control, the creditor or owner does not have in his possession the executed agreement or security instrument or any copy thereof.

But that in turn appears to be an admission that they do not have any copy.

If they do have a copy, but are using that section to avoid supplying it, then arguably they are in breach of the regs.

never-in-doubt

Fermi,

Thanks - I actually forgot that i'd created a thread with the Regs here! Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

But, in this case if the lender is hiding behind the Regs, these will supersede the CCA right, so where does Goodtimes stand with respect to his response>? I mean he can argue til the cows come home that they should send the CCA or are in default, but they will just stick to this reply won't they?

So legally, he could take it to court but otherwise is it just a case of telling them they aint getting anything until they send a copy of the CCA or do we have any defence of these Regs, with the CCA?

fermi

The regs don't supersede the CCA. They supplement it. They are made under the powers of a part of the original CCA that I can't be bothered to look up at the mo, but it is there.

But I see what you mean. The creditor can rely on their terms.

Yep. They will stick to that reply. They appear to not have an agreement, so it is their best option.

They would still need an agreement in court though. Those regs do not effect that.

If this account is already defaulted, then personally I would just send a letter stating "thanks for confirming that you do hold a copy of this agreement". And something along the lines of "as this is clearly unenforceable via the courts, I require you to..... (a) ....(b)....(c)..... etc". I think there is a generic letter on here or CAG that basically says that.

hart_2

Interesting

hart_2

I'm reading as many of these threads as possible and learning snippets of info all the time, a lot to digest!

Goodtimesahead

fermi wrote: »

The regs don't supersede the CCA. They supplement it. They are made under the powers of a part of the original CCA that I can't be bothered to look up at the mo, but it is there.

But I see what you mean. The creditor can rely on their terms.

Yep. They will stick to that reply. They appear to not have an agreement, so it is their best option.

They would still need an agreement in court though. Those regs do not effect that.

If this account is already defaulted, then personally I would just send a letter stating "thanks for confirming that you do hold a copy of this agreement". And something along the lines of "as this is clearly unenforceable via the courts, I require you to..... (a) ....(b)....(c)..... etc". I think there is a generic letter on here or CAG that basically says that.

Morning nid & fermi :T

There are no entries from Nat West credit card services for this debt on any of my credit files. I assume its because its from 1983, didn't they require your prior consent in those days to record data with the CRA's?

I keep checking the credit files but still no entry from Nat West or any of the other DCA's that have been chasing payment since the start of the year.

First letter was from AIC Allied International Credit (fancy name!) they offered 35% off to settle it.

Next letter was from Consultants ltd & Regal Credit (obviously as they have same letter formats and address lol!) They both demanded full payment or they would send Field collectors around!

I have not replied to anyone only CCA Nat West, hence the previous posts (extracts from their CCA reply). What kind of reply should I write as there is no default showing or indeed no entry as of yet?

TIA

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

Morning nid & fermi :T

There are no entries from Nat West credit card services for this debt on any of my credit files. I assume its because its from 1983, didn't they require your prior consent in those days to record data with the CRA's?
TIA

Thinking about this, if there are no entries with Natwest then why not just ignore them totally and do nothing?

They cannot touch you can they, so probably best to ignore it - eventually they will go away and with there being nothing on your credit file, why upset the apple-cart and risk them adding a default?

Just a thought

never-in-doubt

hart wrote: »

I'm reading as many of these threads as possible and learning snippets of info all the time, a lot to digest!

If you read page 1 you'll pretty much learn unenforceability - anything else just ask away and we'll tell you lol.... not that difficult to be fair, you request the CCA, they send you junk, you stop paying and claim unenforceability until they prove they have an agreement, they hassle you a bit, you ignore them, 6 years later the default drops off - case closed.