Unenforceability & Template Letters II

libbyjade

Nid,

I've just realised, it's actually your fault people ask so many questions!
You feed us with more and more information and therefore generate more and more confusion! Ha :rotfl:

Re your link below; this got me thinking again :eek:

Obviously a successful unenforceable cca dispute made years ago ie 2004 will now have dropped off. But, lets say an exact replica dispute (same creditor failing to provide a true copy) was made in 2010 that was due to drop off in say 2016, is it feasible to think that there maybe a court case between now and then that will allow the exact same debt to become enforceable?

So what's unenforceable now, may not be unenforceable in 5 years time? or am I just worrying myself for nothing (and in turn pestering you again!):hello:

As above - also relevant is this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8393768.stm

never-in-doubt

libbyjade wrote: »

Nid,

I've just realised, it's actually your fault people ask so many questions!
You feed us with more and more information and therefore generate more and more confusion! Ha :rotfl:

Re your link below; this got me thinking again :eek:

Obviously a successful unenforceable cca dispute made years ago ie 2004 will now have dropped off. But, lets say an exact replica dispute (same creditor failing to provide a true copy) was made in 2010 that was due to drop off in say 2016, is it feasible to think that there maybe a court case between now and then that will allow the exact same debt to become enforceable?

So what's unenforceable now, may not be unenforceable in 5 years time? or am I just worrying myself for nothing (and in turn pestering you again!):hello:

LOL - don't go blaming me :eek::eek: :rotfl::rotfl:

Its confusing because it is not as plain sailing as people think - each person's scenario will differ thus so will the result/response I give but then I also need to know a lot in order to establish things so as not to give wrong advice - it is not generalised, as such, moreso specific to each individual....

Unenforceability is non retrospective - the rules will always apply that once unenforceable, the only thing to change that would be the finding of the original agreement - however, assume a case came between now and then that repealed something (as a result of OFT intervention or case law) it would not be retrospective

You're worrying yourself over nothing :beer:

ELMA97

Hi NID
I know you're busy but did you happen to see my post 1929 to you yesterday. thanks

never-in-doubt

DGJsaver wrote:

Email sent to NiD

Hi Mate

Sorry for delay.

Ok, had a proper look and there is no agreement, as I said earlier. By agreement I mean a regulated document - so it should be called 'Consumer Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'. If it does not have this, the prescribed terms (i.e. limit/repayments/interest) on the agreement with your signature then it is 100% unenforceable.

You need to send them the following letter: 3. CCA Query

In the letter add a part stating 'in order for me to establish the enforceability of the debt I formally request sight of the original alleged agreement. I am happy to attend a local branch of Barclays or pay reasonable costs to view the document. If you do not have an original agreement you should confirm this in writing, in line with recent OFT guidance issued as a result of the recent Carey v HSBC Bank Plc {2009} EWHC 3417 (QB) case'.

See how you get on.

Best of luck

never-in-doubt

ELMA97 wrote: »

Hi NID
I know you're busy but did you happen to see my post 1929 to you yesterday. thanks

Ooops sorry missed it :whistle:

ELMA97 wrote: »

Hi NID
OKay so from yesterday after HBOS sent me a signed app form- you said at quick glimpse it looked ok, should I just start paying again or wait and see if they try to start court action? bit worried about this.

thanks again.

Wait and see what they do, if they attempt to 'enforce' the debt then post back and we'll guide you through what to do. Its up to you, of course arrange a repayment schedule if you think its better for you - otherwise, don't :p

Whatever, don't be worried - you're in good hands...

roadster

never-in-doubt wrote: »

I'm used to it with you mate - you take up too much of my time

Sorry Niddy

Will try and keep it short next time lol. Have a few Stellas on me:beer: let me know where to send em lol.

Thanks again

mk1golf

never-in-doubt wrote: »

This seems ok, if you can scan it and email me it (or post here) i'll take a look if you want?



Great - so you know its a reconstituted copy, meaning they 'may' not have the original. It'd be best to PM a link to it, or if you feel ok leaving it as it is and not blanking everything then PM me and i'll give you my email address to send me the whole document. Don't worry, the content is forgotten as soon as i've dealt with it lol.... plenty will confirm I am safe



Lloyds always say this - utter nonsense! Means nothing, I know of at least 10 people on here that categoricaly stated they never signed an agreement as it was done over the phone / in branch / just arrived in the post!



They have half satisfied their obligation! They will communicate, i'll sort you a letter that will force them to!



You're going to get defaulted regardless really - is this your only account or do you have others that you're claiming unenforceability on? If this is your only problematic account then paying it would stop a default, but if you have other defaults then what does one more matter? It's up to you of course, what action you take.

If it is unenforceable though, then a default will be issued so rushing doesn't achieve anything unless you have a perfect credit file with no defaults.....



Every lender is worth fighting, they cannot do much remember! If they cannot provide the original in court they cannot enforce the agreement. If they do produce it prior to court hearing, then you cancel court and agree to repayment.

So its no problem, whatever way you look at it. You stay in control, at all times.

Make sense?

Hi N-I-D , I've been searching and reading the forum for a while, trying to find a way of helping the mother in law, who is 65, with her Lloyds TSB credit card debt of £13000. I rang them last month and explained she was struggling to pay, asked them if they would stop the interest and allow us to pay the capital, but was given a firm no, they even looked at putting a loan together to pay it off, but couldn't do it as she didn't have enough spare cash for the monthly payments (£198) even though this was lower than the interest charged to her each month on the card (£260)....have to add, there was no way I was going to transfer the credit card debt to a loan anyhow.
Back to the topic, I eventually noticed your CCA thread and have managed to persuade the mother in law to let me try this avenue, she hasn't much to lose in the credit scoring as she doesnt have enough money to get credit anywhere else. I sent off the first template letter to Lloyds and today got the same response as Strolli, with the added part of because the Credit Card was issued before 1985 they dont have to supply me with the True copy and sent me a current terms and conditions and will not respond to any further requests for an original copy.

Do I follow Strolli's route, which is the more favourable letter to send them next?
I'm

never-in-doubt

mk1golf wrote: »

Back to the topic, I eventually noticed your CCA thread and have managed to persuade the mother in law to let me try this avenue, she hasn't much to lose in the credit scoring as she doesnt have enough money to get credit anywhere else. I sent off the first template letter to Lloyds and today got the same response as Strolli, with the added part of because the Credit Card was issued before 1985 they dont have to supply me with the True copy and sent me a current terms and conditions and will not respond to any further requests for an original copy.

Do I follow Strolli's route, which is the more favourable letter to send them next?
I'm

Hiya
Yep, st0lli is a good place to start as they've been through all this but don't worry about Lloyds, they cannot do much. So the MiL took this card out like, 25 years ago (c.1985)? If so it is unlikely they will have the agreement.

Whatever you do, do not copy any letters (word for word) that i've done for st0lli as Lloyds will not take things as serious if the same letters keep appearing lol! Has she got any other debts, or just this one?

Does she need credit for the next 6 years? Does she know the after-effects of this? i.e. default/hassle on phone from DCA's etc/letters from DCA's etc?

If she is happy/aware with this then go for it...

mk1golf

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya
Yep, st0lli is a good place to start as they've been through all this but don't worry about Lloyds, they cannot do much. So the MiL took this card out like, 25 years ago (c.1985)? If so it is unlikely they will have the agreement.

Whatever you do, do not copy any letters (word for word) that i've done for st0lli as Lloyds will not take things as serious if the same letters keep appearing lol! Has she got any other debts, or just this one?

Does she need credit for the next 6 years? Does she know the after-effects of this? i.e. default/hassle on phone from DCA's etc/letters from DCA's etc?

If she is happy/aware with this then go for it...

The mother in law cannot get any credit, apart from a couple of very small catalogue bills, she has no other debts.....her income is too low to get credit, let alone pay for it .

She does own her own home and is pushing ahead with equity release, I know that if push comes to shove, she would use her equity release to pay her credit card bill and take the less stressful option, but I've got about 6 weeks till her equity release goes through, to convince her she has a case or get Lloyds in a position where they come off their high perch and take a smaller offer

never-in-doubt

mk1golf wrote: »

The mother in law cannot get any credit, apart from a couple of very small catalogue bills, she has no other debts.....her income is too low to get credit, let alone pay for it .

She does own her own home and is pushing ahead with equity release, I know that if push comes to shove, she would use her equity release to pay her credit card bill and take the less stressful option, but I've got about 6 weeks till her equity release goes through, to convince her she has a case or get Lloyds in a position where they come off their high perch and take a smaller offer

Well do as above and see what happens, don't rush into anything cos it's better when lloyds sell the debt to a DCA as the DCA will accept reduced payments, Lloyds may sell it to them for as little as 8p in the pound meaning if she owed £10k she could offer £2500 and they may accept, yea she'd still have the default but at least the debt would be gone....

Unenforceability is also a good idea......