Unenforceability & Template Letters II

jemma8526

never-in-doubt wrote: »

LOL


They have very limited legal powers and i'd be ignoring them.....

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to be fair I had the goods back. It was a horse saddle which obviously didn't fit the buyers horse and so she decided to lie about damage that didnt exist. I offered photos to prove otherwise etc but paypal didnt want to know. I'd spent the money as the claim was made 4 weeks after the sale later, so I offered to pay back once the saddle resold and pay them £10 a month until that happened. I thought that was fair. But all this is probably for another thread!!

I was keeping up my end until the sent a load of DCAs after me and thats why I'm here. The way I see it is that I may have had the goods back but if they are going to be a***holes then I'll be one straight back

shall i send them a cca query relating to t & c's or wait out 30 days and send cca dispute just for fun or just ignore them and forget about it?

never-in-doubt

nonnynonny wrote: »

They actually refunded the amount by bacs transfer into my account, not to the loan account, they then re-arranged the loan as per the above.

Eh?

Let me get this right, you had a loan and they refunded missold PPi and now they have reopened a new loan in your name?

If so you need to go speak to FOS - unfortunately s.127 was repealed after 04/07 agreements so as explained previously, no unenforceability can be claimed..... You're not going to be able to change my words just by reiterating anything lol, it was taken out after 2007 therefore you cannot argue the enforceability of it! You also agreed to them opening a new account....

Sorry but your first mistake was claiming PPi and the second was agreeing to the payout and the third was accepting their deal and the fourth, that will follow shortly if you pursue things...

Sorry, just giving my advice. This is a procedural error therefore you need to go to the FOS and complain but that will not write the debt off, you will still be liable - use the £3k they paid you to make a F&F offer?

roadster

Hi NID

Had a letter today from Monument as follows

The investigation of your complaint has now bee completed. In the circumstances and for the purpose fo the FOS, you may regard this letter as our final response.

We understand that your main concern is regarding Monuments compliance with sec 78 of the CCA 1974.

In summary the results of our investigation are as follows -

We have previously written to you on xx and enclosed, for the purposes of sec 78(1) of the CCA 1974 (as amended), relevant documentation evidencing your agreement with us.

We do not agree with your analysis that the information we have previously provided you with does not comply with our obligations under sec 78(1), for the following reasons.

1. Sec 78(1) does not require us to provide you with an exact copy or photocopy of the agreement you signed. Equally we are not required to provide you with a copy showing your name or signature.

2. Section 78(1) allows us to provide you with a reconstructed copy of the agreement which contains the same terms as the one you signed, an updated version of the agreement which includes any variations to the original agreement, and an up to date statement of your account.

We can further confirm that the copy of the agreement we have previously provided you with was in the appropriate format and did include the T&C that were applicable at the time of you entering into the agreement.

Notwithstanding our comments above on the legal position, and as we were not previously able to provided you with a copy of your signed Reply Card, we now enclose that document herewith.

Please also allow me to clarify how this agreement came into effect.

You may recall having completed an application form (reply card) to confirm that you had read and agreed to be bound by the agreements financial related particulars and full T&C. Upon receipt and acceptance of your application for a Monument Visa Card, you were issued with a further copy of the agreed T&C along with a card and pin number. Dependant upon subsequent card usage, statements would have normally been issued to you on a monthly basis. Any relevant Notice of Variation in relation to your agrrement would also have been notified to you.

As we have complied with our obligations under the CCA we regard your debt as fully enforceable and do not consider there to be a dispute.

it goes on to say if you dont pay further action etc etc

Enclosed was a photo copy of the reply card dated 2003 with my sig etc on it

Sorry NID for the long post

Whats my next course for this

Thanks for help :beer:

libbyjade

Hi NID,

As I've cancelled my dd with cccs (dispute letters sent to 3 dca's) 1 of my debts was a £2.5k overdraft which I know I cannot prove unenforceable.

I've had a letter from them already telling me the debt is enforceable and to contact them immediately to set up payments.

Whats the most likely thing to happen & worst thing can happen if I choose to ignore this and hope it drops off in 6 years?

My credit rating is shot anyway, but worried as it is enforceable they will pursue me through the courts for it if I don't pay anything.

If they pursued me all the way, could this make my credit file even worse??? ie county court judgement against me??

As it's only £2.5k and I'm hoping to prove the rest of my debts unenforceable and drop off in 6 years, is there any value in setting up a repayment plan with them?

Ta La...

Dave

never-in-doubt

libbyjade wrote: »

Whats the most likely thing to happen & worst thing can happen if I choose to ignore this and hope it drops off in 6 years?

Nothing, it would just drop off after 6 years and become statute barred after 6 years from date you last acknowledged the debt (i.e. date of CCA request as things currently stand)....

libbyjade wrote: »

My credit rating is shot anyway, but worried as it is enforceable they will pursue me through the courts for it if I don't pay anything.

All overdrafts are enforceable as they do not come under s.78 CCA

libbyjade wrote: »

If they pursued me all the way, could this make my credit file even worse??? ie county court judgement against me??

They will not do this, not for £2.5k - which lender is it?

libbyjade wrote: »

As it's only £2.5k and I'm hoping to prove the rest of my debts unenforceable and drop off in 6 years, is there any value in setting up a repayment plan with them?

I cannot answer this (publicly lol) but if you're asking what i'd do, assuming the above circumstances i'd be thinking the same as you - if that helps

Ta La...

Niddy :beer:

carld_2

Hi NID,

Thank you so much for your advice regarding my situation with DLC/Hillseden on pm....

I want to understand one thing - If I do get a default added to my credit file(which I think is going to happen as my account is in dispute and I have stopped payments) will this default remain on my account for 6 years or will I be able to get this removed if the debt becomes unenforceable...?

Cheers

Carl

never-in-doubt

roadster wrote: »

The investigation of your complaint has now bee completed. In the circumstances and for the purpose fo the FOS, you may regard this letter as our final response.

Good :T

roadster wrote: »

We understand that your main concern is regarding Monuments compliance with sec 78 of the CCA 1974.

Clever aren't they mate :rotfl:

roadster wrote: »

We do not agree with your analysis that the information we have previously provided you with does not comply with our obligations under sec 78(1), for the following reasons.

What a surprise - i'd never guess they wouldn't agree!

roadster wrote: »

1. Sec 78(1) does not require us to provide you with an exact copy or photocopy of the agreement you signed. Equally we are not required to provide you with a copy showing your name or signature.

Yep, quite true but they must know they cannot pursue this in court without said original signed agreement?

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

roadster wrote: »

2. Section 78(1) allows us to provide you with a reconstructed copy of the agreement which contains the same terms as the one you signed, an updated version of the agreement which includes any variations to the original agreement, and an up to date statement of your account.

As above - also relevant is this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8393768.stm

roadster wrote: »

We can further confirm that the copy of the agreement we have previously provided you with was in the appropriate format and did include the T&C that were applicable at the time of you entering into the agreement.

So it bloody should have been as well.....

roadster wrote: »

Notwithstanding our comments above on the legal position, and as we were not previously able to provided you with a copy of your signed Reply Card, we now enclose that document herewith.

Unfortunately this means nothing, s.127(3) stipulates otherwise.

roadster wrote: »

You may recall having completed an application form (reply card) to confirm that you had read and agreed to be bound by the agreements financial related particulars and full T&C. Upon receipt and acceptance of your application for a Monument Visa Card, you were issued with a further copy of the agreed T&C along with a card and pin number. Dependant upon subsequent card usage, statements would have normally been issued to you on a monthly basis. Any relevant Notice of Variation in relation to your agrrement would also have been notified to you.

This means nothing - where is the agreement? Muppets!

roadster wrote: »

As we have complied with our obligations under the CCA..........

Ermm, kind of - they have send a recon, that's about it (well they havent even done that yet have they?)

roadster wrote: »

.....we regard your debt as fully enforceable and do not consider there to be a dispute.

Tough - its not up to them to determine whether it is disputed - it is your prerogative!

roadster wrote: »

it goes on to say if you dont pay further action etc etc

Good Luck - they will need it :rotfl:

roadster wrote: »

Enclosed was a photo copy of the reply card dated 2003 with my sig etc on it

Was it a Consumer Credit Agreement Regulated by CCA1974 with the prescribed terms on the same page, and signed? I sincerely doubt it and as such it is worthless junk

roadster wrote: »

Sorry NID for the long post

I'm used to it with you mate - you take up too much of my time :mad:

roadster wrote: »

Whats my next course for this

Run mate - elope - escape - hide! Nah, do nothing and see what letter comes next then tell me and i'll sort your response - they have confirmed it is their final response so ignore them and see what their next move is mate.

never-in-doubt

carld wrote: »

Hi NID,

Thank you so much for your advice regarding my situation with DLC/Hillseden on pm....

I want to understand one thing - If I do get a default added to my credit file(which I think is going to happen as my account is in dispute and I have stopped payments) will this default remain on my account for 6 years or will I be able to get this removed if the debt becomes unenforceable...?

Cheers

Carl

Hiya

The default stays for 6 years - nothing you can do cos you did default, but what is a default if you're getting debt wiped?

Go Figure :huh::huh:

If this is one card or debt then do not do this cos it simply isn't worth it - it is designed for people at the end of their tether with nowhere to turn - not for simple debt avoidance.

never-in-doubt

jemma8526 wrote: »

to be fair I had the goods back. It was a horse saddle which obviously didn't fit the buyers horse and so she decided to lie about damage that didnt exist. I offered photos to prove otherwise etc but paypal didnt want to know. I'd spent the money as the claim was made 4 weeks after the sale later, so I offered to pay back once the saddle resold and pay them £10 a month until that happened. I thought that was fair. But all this is probably for another thread!!

Post on paypalsucks link I sent you.... they are experts at beating PayPal... lol

jemma8526 wrote: »

shall i send them a cca query relating to t & c's or wait out 30 days and send cca dispute just for fun or just ignore them and forget about it?

Who? PayPal or a catalogue? If catalogue you ignore them and stop paying... PayPal cannot be sent a s.78 request as explained earlier... keep to names lol, i.e. whatever account - its confusing me! :rotfl:

libbyjade

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Nothing, it would just drop off after 6 years and become statute barred after 6 years from date you last acknowledged the debt (i.e. date of CCA request as things currently stand)....

I haven't sent them a cca request as it's an overdraft? I haven't sent them anything!:eek:


They will not do this, not for £2.5k - which lender is it?

Alliance & Leicester - now Santander

I cannot answer this (publicly lol) but if you're asking what i'd do, assuming the above circumstances i'd be thinking the same as you - if that helps

nuff said!! :rotfl:

cheers