Dog breed suggestions

suki1964

lostinrates wrote: »

Actually, I do want dogs that are representative o the breed standard. I want a dog that is bred by some one who puts in the ours of reseach into helth background of generations before who goes to our club financially supported lectures on research also donated to by the breed club, who breeds for type to be able to do a job as well as health and character.

Breeds evolved partly because we found different ways to employ dogs, I want a dog whose nature will be suited to the home I provide, not one whose breeding will lead him/her to be incompatible with my lifestyle, with the life I can give it.

I want all dogs to be born to be from dogs whose healh is checked, who are monitored, not necessarily shown or worked, but where records being kept become manditory.

I stand pretty m,uch alone that I'd like registry for crossbreeds so that this extended in time to all dogs. I'd like a licence fee levied at a higher rate for people who coose to keep dogs entire, so that breeding becomes a thought out action, not a random accident, whether pedigree or not.

That my dog is to my eyes (and from among the best winning stock not in the country but the world) is a bonus. Oh and snobbery? Money? The breeder GAVE her to me, because they wanted younger people, people with understanding of lines etc, to consider becoming a serious club member, for new blood and someone who came with no interest in politicking.

Of course I wanted all that but I guess what im saying is at the end of the day i did want a pet. Just my ham fisted way of saying that you dont have to be into showing or working your dog to be looking at reputable respected breeders.

Remember when that other registration came out? Pet lovers or something? And so many people were conned into thinking that their pedigree pet was ok because it was registered with that organisation, being told it was for pedigree owners who were just after pets.

Of course they were puppy farmed wee things

There is a motion that prolly wont get through this parliament to do the things you ask for - the licencing of breeders and entire pets, compulsory health checks of breeding stock etc etc etc. But who once again will police it who knows. The KC? Anyways I doubt it will see the light of day this parliament or it will be as inefficient as every other animal welfare laws they rush through

lostinrates

suki1964 wrote: »

Of course I wanted all that but I guess what im saying is at the end of the day i did want a pet. Just my ham fisted way of saying that you dont have to be into showing or working your dog to be looking at reputable respected breeders.

Remember when that other registration came out? Pet lovers or something? And so many people were conned into thinking that their pedigree pet was ok because it was registered with that organisation, being told it was for pedigree owners who were just after pets.

Of course they were puppy farmed wee things

There is a motion that prolly wont get through this parliament to do the things you ask for - the licencing of breeders and entire pets, compulsory health checks of breeding stock etc etc etc. But who once again will police it who knows. The KC? Anyways I doubt it will see the light of day this parliament or it will be as inefficient as every other animal welfare laws they rush through

Suki, my apologies, I didn't mean to imply you didn't wan the same things too.

Yes, ultimately for me, my animals are my family, I want them to be a cohesicve part of a whole family. We have found this possible with sme rescues of the same breed and I'm excited that our next dog will probably be a rescue too: either a greyhound, or perhaps a lurcher...I'm not dissing rescues, very far from it: I just hate we need them My ideal future would be one where dogs needing rehoming would be far, far fewer in number. IMO GOOD breeders re part of that future as much as bad ones are not! Good breeders: a woman who goes on holiday levaing her stud of dogs at home and uncared for is NO respectableperson, even a dog breeders, idea of a good breeder.

I'm also not against mongrels/crossbreds, either in theory (in partcular, I have issues with the way it often happens, not that they are bred or exist) or as people. I've known fr more lovely dogs than i have little blighters, regardless of heritage. I just wanta better futrue for animal welfare, lower rates of genetic disease, lower rates of rehoming, lower rates of PTS from over supply.

We tend to feel quite smug, as a ''nation of animal lovers'' but TBH, we are a long way off perfect. Dog lovers, of all dogs, mongrels, pedigrees, crossbreads, need to start pullingtogether not pulling aprt to tackle this.

BTW: I would adore an Italian greyhound, pretty sure I could find an irresponisble breeder to sell me one, but as a house hold with other, boisterous dogs, horses, livestock and a rough and tumble life I know I must not have one. Its not all about fulfilling whims with a cheque book, its about the right dog, however adorable I find IGreys, I know I am not the right home.:(

Frugalista

lostinrates wrote: »

Dog lovers, of all dogs, mongrels, pedigrees, crossbreads, need to start pullingtogether not pulling aprt to tackle this.

lostinrates, this is exactly the thing I have tried appealing for myself in previous posts - but sadly, there are people on this board who have hidden agendas and appear to be totally against any sort of "meeting in the middle" . I'm totally with you on the sentiment but I won't be holding my breath :sad:.

suki1964

lostinrates wrote: »

Suki, my apologies, I didn't mean to imply you didn't wan the same things too.

Yes, ultimately for me, my animals are my family, I want them to be a cohesicve part of a whole family. We have found this possible with sme rescues of the same breed and I'm excited that our next dog will probably be a rescue too: either a greyhound, or perhaps a lurcher...I'm not dissing rescues, very far from it: I just hate we need them My ideal future would be one where dogs needing rehoming would be far, far fewer in number. IMO GOOD breeders re part of that future as much as bad ones are not! Good breeders: a woman who goes on holiday levaing her stud of dogs at home and uncared for is NO respectableperson, even a dog breeders, idea of a good breeder.

I'm also not against mongrels/crossbreds, either in theory (in partcular, I have issues with the way it often happens, not that they are bred or exist) or as people. I've known fr more lovely dogs than i have little blighters, regardless of heritage. I just wanta better futrue for animal welfare, lower rates of genetic disease, lower rates of rehoming, lower rates of PTS from over supply.

We tend to feel quite smug, as a ''nation of animal lovers'' but TBH, we are a long way off perfect. Dog lovers, of all dogs, mongrels, pedigrees, crossbreads, need to start pullingtogether not pulling aprt to tackle this.

BTW: I would adore an Italian greyhound, pretty sure I could find an irresponisble breeder to sell me one, but as a house hold with other, boisterous dogs, horses, livestock and a rough and tumble life I know I must not have one. Its not all about fulfilling whims with a cheque book, its about the right dog, however adorable I find IGreys, I know I am not the right home.:(

My hubby would love a boxer - has always hankered for one and as I know our lifestyle its a big NO. A cocker I can handle but a great big slobby juvenile boxer - no way :rotfl:

You are so right in what you say, if you are getting a dog it must be one that suits your lifestyle, else it will be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and usually its the dog that loses out

Once again re the respectable responsible breeders, thats only something that education will get through to people. Time and time again I( and others) give people who come to this board asking for advice on how to get a puppy the information on how to go about finding a good respectable responsible breeder, and every time the rescue brigade turn it into a rescue debate - not that the OPS ever asked that question. Why they can not just say - "Have you thought about a rescue?" and move on is beyond me.

Whilst we have rescues we will always have an over population of dogs - they go hand in hand. Puppy farmers continue to breed and pass on what they cant sell to rescues to sort out. If they had to deal with their unwanted pups themselves, how many would still be breeding? And whilst people are not prepared to pay a decent price for a well bred genetically healthy pup then they will be queuing up to hand their money over to someone who will supply the dog of choice at the price they want .... and if not theres always rescue after all. And then of course when they dog isnt the one they wanted - the rescue is there yet again to pick up the pieces.

Perhaps breeders are not so wrong about picking their potential new owners very carefully........

As for responsible respectable breeders handing in litters because they have fallen on hard times - never heard the like. Yes I have heard of breeders who have stopped breeding and even showing, or passing their dogs on to those more in a position to keep the kennel name going but never handing over litters of puppies because those breeders dont breed just for the sake of a litter. The St Bernard woman case that keeps being bandied about - did she not have a complete breakdown?

It saddens me that for some people it always has to be their way or no way and whilst there is that mindset nothing will change and you will still be homing rescues and I will still be finding new homes for dogs on death row many years from now

foreign_correspondent

Re: the St Bernard woman, no, apparently she did not have a complete breakdown - however, she claimed she was depressed, which was why her husband/partner/whatever apparently took her on holiday leaving the dogs!

Apparently, from the state of them, they had been neglected for much longer than the time she was out of the country though.

What happened with the woman who was on the "pedigree dogs exposed" doc? - the one who was knowlingly breeding CKCS who had health problems - I remember there was some hoo-hah immediately after the programme but not the eventual outcome...

It appears that many believed these two to be good breeders before the truth came out, which is what I mean about how hard it is for the average person to work out which breeders are really responsible and sensible. I think a lot of people assume that a "pedigree" means something re: health and quality, when clearly that is not the case, and KC accreditation does seem to impress many, unsurprisingly.

I agree with what you are saying about education, but a lot of the issue is that buying or taking on a dog (a sentient animal with needs and which makes big demands on the owners time) is of course a far more complex question that buying a new car or washing machine. And, human nature is fallible - people make bad choices all the time, in purchases, financially, in their relationships, and with animals - either because they are impulsive, act on emotions rather than logic, ignorant (as in uneducated or unaware), mislead, misinformed, or just do not do their research fully.

We are all fallible, and whilst I feel that anyone taking a dog on must do their research, the reality is that many people clearly do not, or do a little and are easily satisfied and so, in a world ruled by supply and demand, when dealing with living beings, responsibility lies on both sides of that transaction, i.e. with the supplier as well as the consumer.

As lostinrates says, it really needs a concerted effort to address the problem, and I am not sure there is a quick fix - I wonder if making all profit from dog breeding taxable would put off a lot of the less scrupulous, small time breeders?

Anyway, at risk of veering into a very different discussion, I hope the OP has found some useful info in this thread - any thoughts on breeds or types of dogs yet?

suki1964

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Re: the St Bernard woman, no, apparently she did not have a complete breakdown - however, she claimed she was depressed, which was why her husband/partner/whatever apparently took her on holiday leaving the dogs!

Apparently, from the state of them, they had been neglected for much longer than the time she was out of the country though.

What happened with the woman who was on the "pedigree dogs exposed" doc? - the one who was knowlingly breeding CKCS who had health problems - I remember there was some hoo-hah immediately after the programme but not the eventual outcome...

It appears that many believed these two to be good breeders before the truth came out, which is what I mean about how hard it is for the average person to work out which breeders are really responsible and sensible. I think a lot of people assume that a "pedigree" means something re: health and quality, when clearly that is not the case, and KC accreditation does seem to impress many, unsurprisingly.

I agree with what you are saying about education, but a lot of the issue is that buying or taking on a dog (a sentient animal with needs and which makes big demands on the owners time) is of course a far more complex question that buying a new car or washing machine. And, human nature is fallible - people make bad choices all the time, in purchases, financially, in their relationships, and with animals - either because they are impulsive, act on emotions rather than logic, ignorant (as in uneducated or unaware), mislead, misinformed, or just do not do their research fully.

We are all fallible, and whilst I feel that anyone taking a dog on must do their research, the reality is that many people clearly do not, or do a little and are easily satisfied and so, in a world ruled by supply and demand, when dealing with living beings, responsibility lies on both sides of that transaction, i.e. with the supplier as well as the consumer.

As lostinrates says, it really needs a concerted effort to address the problem, and I am not sure there is a quick fix - I wonder if making all profit from dog breeding taxable would put off a lot of the less scrupulous, small time breeders?

Anyway, at risk of veering into a very different discussion, I hope the OP has found some useful info in this thread - any thoughts on breeds or types of dogs yet?

You know FC, I really hope you speak down to all the new mothers you meet like you speak down to potential dog owners on this forum

If anyone had to come in front of you for permission to get pregnant mankind would come to an end

You really are the most judgemental person I have ever in my life had the misfortune to come across on any forum.

Yes people are fallible - we are human, we need to learn by mistake. Yet dog help any person who comes on these forums asking for help and advice, esp if they are asking for help and advice regarding puppys or dogs they bought because you have not one ounce of compassion in you and you have them hung drawn and quartered and chased off the board with your holier then thou put downs


And seeing at the St Bernard woman admitted neglect her medical history wasn't bought up (not that Im defending her per se), but out of the " hundreds of reputable breeders giving up pups to rescue" its strange that this is the only case you can keep harking back too.

And once again, open you eyes, take your fingers out your ears and your head out of your bum and READ. How many more times do we need to tell you how to go about find a reputable breeder???????

Oh darn, I forgot - no such thing and all rescues are perfect matching dogs to families with no come back what so ever ( funny how so many times you advise people to go rescue so they can return the dog if it all goes pear shape)

foreign_correspondent

suki1964 wrote: »

You know FC, I really hope you speak down to all the new mothers you meet like you speak down to potential dog owners on this forum

If anyone had to come in front of you for permission to get pregnant mankind would come to an end

You really are the most judgemental person I have ever in my life had the misfortune to come across on any forum.

Yes people are fallible - we are human, we need to learn by mistake. Yet dog help any person who comes on these forums asking for help and advice, esp if they are asking for help and advice regarding puppys or dogs they bought because you have not one ounce of compassion in you and you have them hung drawn and quartered and chased off the board with your holier then thou put downs


And seeing at the St Bernard woman admitted neglect her medical history wasnt bought up (not that Im defending her per se), but out of the " hundreds of reputable breeders giving up pups to rescue" its strange that this is the only case you can keep harking back too.

And once again, open you eyes, take your fingers out your ears and of your bum and READ. How many more times do we nead to tell you how to go about find a reputable breeder???????

Oh darn, I forgot - no such thing and all rescues are perfect matching dogs to families with no come back what so ever ( funny how so many times you advise people to go rescue so they can return the dog if it all goes pear shape)

Why so rude?

Frugalista

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Why so rude?

Hey! That was my line to mrcol earlier in the thread .

lostinrates

I'm trying very hard to remian in the discussion, but side step the row.:o I have seen very superb posts from FC, Frugalista and Suki, so ....I think that you come from different vantages is good for the board, it would be nice to find the common ground we must share over dog-love!

I hope in repsonce I can ver much stay on the good side of you all.:o

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Re: the St Bernard woman, no, apparently she did not have a complete breakdown - however, she claimed she was depressed, which was why her husband/partner/whatever apparently took her on holiday leaving the dogs!
Apparently, from the state of them, they had been neglected for much longer than the time she was out of the country though.

FC, regardles of background, or exxcuse, this no breeder, pedigree lover, or decent human being would defend. Its like syaing I didn't neglect my children, until I did. As animal owners, let alone professionals, we re-prove ourselves everyday, as we do in the workplace, in relationshps etc.

What happened with the woman who was on the "pedigree dogs exposed" doc? - the one who was knowlingly breeding CKCS who had health problems - I remember there was some hoo-hah immediately after the programme but not the eventual outcome...

No idea, sadly. Ther are other breeders this applies too, there are some instances I've heard people trying to justify it....but not many.

It appears that many believed these two to be good breeders before the truth came out, which is what I mean about how hard it is for the average person to work out which breeders are really responsible and sensible. I think a lot of people assume that a "pedigree" means something re: health and quality, when clearly that is not the case, and KC accreditation does seem to impress many, unsurprisingly.

Pedigree does not mean health or quality, but we should be endeavouring to make it so, a pedigree is an accepted heritage of line. We should be endeavouring to make it more, good people, I think, are. We need more dog lovers to help, not to knock the good with the bad. (just as lumping the bad with the good remains a problem)

I agree with what you are saying about education, but a lot of the issue is that buying or taking on a dog (a sentient animal with needs and which makes big demands on the owners time) is of course a far more complex question that buying a new car or washing machine. And, human nature is fallible - people make bad choices all the time, in purchases, financially, in their relationships, and with animals - either because they are impulsive, act on emotions rather than logic, ignorant (as in uneducated or unaware), mislead, misinformed, or just do not do their research fully.

I agree. People also shack up and have babies illpreparedly. Good breeders should be, in most cases resisting spontanaeity! I think I have said that this is not how it was with dog -dog, the decision to bring her home was spontaneous for me but had been the discussion of more than one person within the breed (itwas known I was looking for a dog and had been researching another breed for some time). Its not so often, I guess the breeders pick out the recipients of their dogs in quite the same way.

They were right. Dog-dog is delightful and makes me happier than I can have imagined. I would not have agreed to the spontanatity if I didn't know and trust these people well. I also know I can call them if I have any problems, they know they can tell me if I'm needing to be told something.
We are all fallible, and whilst I feel that anyone taking a dog on must do their research, the reality is that many people clearly do not, or do a little and are easily satisfied and so, in a world ruled by supply and demand, when dealing with living beings, responsibility lies on both sides of that transaction, i.e. with the supplier as well as the consumer.

Yes: Again I agree. The really good breeders would too I think, they needs to be thought into a purchase, visits over time, knowledge aqcquired, maybe time spent with an adult dog. Breeders might not tell you you are being watched, but I've seen it done subtley. I've also seen breeders steer buyers towards a puppy they believe better suited to them. Its why breeders routines can seema little OTT and onerous to some. Its why I say GO TO SHOWS, join the club, meet people first: its better for breeder and pet owner, really it is.

As lostinrates says, it really needs a concerted effort to address the problem, and I am not sure there is a quick fix - I wonder if making all profit from dog breeding taxable would put off a lot of the less scrupulous, small time breeders?

No, there is no quick fix, to this or all the other ills of humanity. I fundamentally believe registration and records of all dogs, with a levy on anything entire to be a feature. I also wish showing neuters was made less....out of norm. Profit from dog breeding is income, and should be taxed, as should other cash in hand income. Its hard to police, whatever the issue: bad breeders would conceal it easily f the issue pushed I suppose (no reason not to, just get properly policed, I feel the same about all cash in hand income.)


Anyway, at risk of veering into a very different discussion, I hope the OP has found some useful info in this thread - any thoughts on breeds or types of dogs yet?

Poor OP!

FWIW, I still think an adult dog is a good solution. And its not rescue versus pedigree, if here is a breed you like joint h ebreed club, send time researching, just as with a puppy, and go on the rescue list. Also some breeders like to retire kennel dogs, from showing/breeding careers to family homes, so they get some one on one time. These dogs, weve had a few, have usually been beautifully adjustedand have good manners with other dogs, though some aspects of house living can be new, though by no means for all, they tend to adapt well from good backgrounds.

foreign_correspondent

Totally agree lostinrates - and some very good points too - it is a complex problem with no fast fixes, but I do think there is some mileage in licensing or compulsory microchipping - however, nothing will be fail safe. (As a kid, I used to love queueing in the post office with my hard saved £1.50 or whatever it was back then, to buy my dog license!)

And of course it is not a pedigree vs rescue question, or even a rescue vs breeder question - many pedigrees can be found via rescue, just as many breeders are now producing mongrels (or "designer" crossbreeds!!)

I agree with you that for someone in circumstances like the OP's an adult dog with a nice temprement would probably be a much easier addition to the family.