Liz Jones is Credit Crunched in the end.....

ninky_2

well done to liz for using her fame to highlight this and being part of the solution. she's looking pretty well in the picture too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1286316/LIZ-JONES-Two-years-ago-Weasel-Waffle-Marmalade-neglected-starving-death-Just-look-now.html

The problem of too many horses is already being tackled by the British Horse Society with its Think Before You Breed campaign.


'Although James Gray is the face of cruelty towards horses in this country, it is the actions of a great many ordinary horse owners that are the real source of the problem'

'We have too many horses and ponies,' a spokesperson told me. 'The issue has been brought into even sharper focus by the economic difficulties faced by many horse owners over the past two years. equine charities have been reporting a huge increase in the number of requests for help for some time.'
And as for the racing industry - well, too many retired racehorses meet an uncertain future.
Approximately 3,000 a year simply 'disappear'; either slaughtered for meat, exported to an unknown end or abandoned in a field, which is where I found my racehorse.
So, although James Gray is the conspicuous and grotesque face of cruelty towards horses in this country, it is the actions of a great many ordinary horse owners that are the real source of the problem.

lostinrates

Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

One of the most ridiculous aspects of this is that current planning in UK ENCOURAGES breeding by having ''stud'' (not necessarily even breed registered...you could breed three legged one eyed ponies) by making it a potential planning solution for agricultural land to equine. Its seen as preferable to livery because it doesn't necessarily increase traffic, and to riding schools for the same reason, and they generally require more buildings. Reality IMO is that the closure of riding schools is bad for the industry and for those who would like to ride but can't afford the time/money of horse ownership.

Its worth noting also, that horse breeding IS agriculture in the EU...and thus this sort of thing could well increase rather than decrease. most equine enterprise is multifaceted, breeding often being PART of other enterprise. To have it as a planning option over something better for locals and employment (and welfare) is something that has concerned me for sometime.

ninky_2

lostinrates wrote: »

One of the most ridiculous aspects of this is that current planning in UK ENCOURAGES breeding by having ''stud'' (not necessarily even breed registered...you could breed three legged one eyed ponies) by making it a potential planning solution for agricultural land to equine.

Its worth noting also, that horse breeding IS agriculture in the EU...and thus this sort of thing could well increase rather than decrease. most equine enterprise is multifaceted, breeding often being PART of other enterprise. To have it as a planning option over something better for locals and employment (and welfare) is something that has concerned me for sometime.

totally agree with you lir. i don't understand how it is okay for agricultural land to be used for hobby horses (sorry that sounds wrong but you know what i mean) whilst lots of people who would like a small croft struggle to get the land for that because a stable block is seen as okay but a farmers cottage isn't (maybe i'm wrong on that front and you could get permission for a dwelling if used to house someone working the land but not afaik).

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

totally agree with you lir. i don't understand how it is okay for agricultural land to be used for hobby horses (sorry that sounds wrong but you know what i mean) whilst lots of people who would like a small croft struggle to get the land for that because a stable block is seen as okay but a farmers cottage isn't (maybe i'm wrong on that front and you could get permission for a dwelling if used to house someone working the land but not afaik).

Yes, but, no, but.

The point I make is that such ''studs'' are classed in UK as agricultural - horse is meat but competition studs are also benefiting from this...not least in record keeping, and that here now hobby horses are disincentive by a faux classification of this stud as separate or somehow less hobby than other forms of equestrianism. It is very, very, very hard to make a profit from breeding. The kind of breeding that does is not down with a few stables on a croft! But rather often results in significnt wastage...as in TB breeding. Riding schools, for examle, USED to be profit making, if not often millionaire making enterprises: less often the case now.

the ''hobby'' use is difficult for many people horses are a part of an income...in more than one way. but more fundamentally, more James Gray's are as or more likely to be from breeding for meat. Very few small farm owners are going to be farming in a non meat/animal produce production way (as opposed to market gardening)...and farming doesn't necessarily have higher/lower welfare standards than horse keeping. From an animal welfare angle then the hobby horses with ample acreage to roam and a ''hobby horse'' work load owned by educated people are probably least dreadful: if not from an ecological or industry related way.

To clarify my stance, I have no more issue rearing horses for meat than any other animal. My issue is the rearing of anything for meat not meeting''decent'' or even adequate welfare standards, and I most certainly have issue with live export of any sort of animal for meat.

Our new property has the most horse friendly terms of planning I have ever come across, its a bit of an oddity and when reading he legal stuff I did keep wondering if words like ''Not'' in front of the words ''equestrian use'' had been missed out....not that it actually was a real issue for me because of the nature of what I might have done/might do professionally, but as a fall back of not have to being profi making and being able to not comply with normal terms is an almost priceless boon.

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

totally agree with you lir. i don't understand how it is okay for agricultural land to be used for hobby horses (sorry that sounds wrong but you know what i mean) whilst lots of people who would like a small croft struggle to get the land for that because a stable block is seen as okay but a farmers cottage isn't (maybe i'm wrong on that front and you could get permission for a dwelling if used to house someone working the land but not afaik).

Oh on the house part you are ...half way wrong. PP for stabling is not that easy any more. PP for permanent agricultural housing is possible, but is strictly in relation to profit. You have to demonstrate a need to be there year round...not just seasonally, when temporary planning s possible, and you have to show profit within a timescale for temporary planning to be made permanent (very hard to show profit in three years, legitimately), and what you build is very strict: which is why so many farmers live in rather unattractive and in side tiny, bungalows. Even if you have independent wealth it doesn't count. (fair) as a common thing to diversify into is B &B I would argue farmers should be allowed to build in a way to cater for this. I also believe eco building (which could be next to invisible if ''hobbit'' housing) or building of architectural merit. One place we didn't buy because of planning was that the existing two bed bungalow was not suitable for us. The planning dept argued is was ''Built in the local vernacular''. If the local vernacular was ''two bed bungalow built it reconstituted stone and could be anywhere in GB and much of France and some of US'' then yes it was. It was also shockingly poorly built, had abysmal insulation and was less economic to heat etc than the bigger, old house we have bought. I don't see that farmers should be ''kept in their peasant place'' any more than anyone else building, and to encourage ugly and un-eco building is similarly poor. Anyway...its a long way off topic but I think answers your question? to be clear: yes farmers can build if they are a: in profit and b: can demonstrate a need (planners would list them the other way round ) presuming the site is suitable and not protected for various reasons.

Personally, I would not buy anywhere I could not live. With stock rustling on the increase you always need to show a presence to deter rustlers, and most animals look for trouble: if I'm there the sooner I can help/get them the veterinary attention they might need. the timescale between being seen/checked is by default shorter in daylight hours if you live there than if you go to somewhere twice a day.

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

And as for the racing industry - well, too many retired racehorses meet an uncertain future.
Approximately 3,000 a year simply 'disappear'; either slaughtered for meat, exported to an unknown end or abandoned in a field, which is where I found my racehorse.

Actually this is a bit odd. TBs are now chipped and DNA tested, have been for some years. A decade or so. Its thus not really possible not to trace the last licensed home. All horses...whether they are TBs or a shetland pony or a unidentifiable pet must now be passported and the papers carried when transported. I know of many unpassported horses but not TBs, and NOTHING off the track. It would be possible, e.g. before weaning.

I wonder if there is some sort of campaign against Whatever we call Weatherbys nowadays about this? I'm not up to date on this. I know they can be VERY slack about chasing up return of passports but that a TB can't be traced strikes be as...very not right.

elona

With her usual sense of timing Liz has decided to sell her farm (which she has described recently as jinxed etc) and to buy something smaller.

So far she seems attracted to tiny places which are falling down, well off the beaten track so no one can find her but with lots of land. She also offers the full asking price and is indignant when EAs don't take her seriously because she has not sold her house yet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-1294422/In-I-decide-time-move.html

I headed up the drive to the house: it’s small, surrounded by derelict farm buildings. It’s a wreck, to be honest; what broke my heart was the two ancient cats who had been left behind. But it was the most magical, beautiful place I’ve ever seen. I sat in the sun, planning how I could make it work. I asked the estate agent about bridle paths, but she had no idea. I asked what was beneath the horrid carpet in the hall and sitting room: ‘Um, I could find out, but to be honest the owner is rather vague.’
I want to leave behind all the negativity: the neighbours who hate me, the shotgun-battered post box
I started to feel cheerful for the first time in about a year. I had been feeling so trapped, so gloomy, that I couldn’t see the wood for the trees. But I could just sell my big house and the beautiful stable block. My animals will be fine. To be honest, I want to leave behind all the negativity: the neighbours who hate me, the shotgun-battered post box.
I want to be where no one will ever see me, or talk to me.


It's like watching an accident in slow motion and I almost feel guilty reading it. No comments allowed on this article but there are on the one slating estate agents etc

ninky_2

best of luck to her. it doesn't sound like such a bad plan. when you are unhappy it is good to keep moving. too many people are unhappy with their job / relationship / life but wait for change rather than creating it.

there is less fretting and more doing in this article and that can only be a good thing.

neverdespairgirl

PasturesNew wrote: »

Horses weighed (or neighed) in at about £12,500/year (from memory). That is pretty much my entire household income for a year... so if I got one I'd be sleeping in its stables and eating its leftovers.

I know it's an old post - but I'm catching up. they don't have to cost anything near that amount. My sisters are both horse-y types, but they get up early and do the work themselves before going to gainful employment.

neverdespairgirl

vivatifosi wrote: »

A dog exhibiting herding behaviour towards horses, which lets face it is a breed characteristic of many dogs and they won't easily to be able to help it should have been heeded as soon as seen. Its the same as herding behaviour being demonstrated towards small children.

Couldn't agree more. My parents have two collies, one aged 20 months, the other 8 months, and they kept them well away from horses until they were sure it was OK.

the younger puppy showed signs of trying to herd my son, and my mother put a stop to it straight away. The puppy does try to herd the cats, still, but a swipe or two more on the nose from a cross feline will sort him out