Our builder won't give receipts for materials

Alan_M_2

Wig wrote:

it's not a nonsense, it is (I agree) as you put it idealist, ideally everyone would be charged the same, ideally you should be able to charge your customers openly for a job and not have hide profits within materials.

That can only happen in a utopian society where houses cost the same no matter where you are and we all work for the good of our Brother, thankfully we live in a free market economy where we can charge what we like, and you can exercise your right to accept that or not as the case may be.

Keeping you as a customer is a nonsense because you as a tradesman can get the same discount at the next shop and the next and the next, and if you can't there is something wrong with your negotiating skills.

Again you're showing your naivety with regard to business, I don't just walk into any shop and get the same discount wherever I go, I negotiate and place business there, as my business increases with that particular supplier so does my leverage with them if they wish to keep me, this puts me in a stronger postion to further negotiate discounts. My business has expanded to a size where I now negotiate in container quantites directly from producers in Europe, I'm now selling to the shops I used to buy from. How well are you doing with your negotiations?

Why? (do I think it should be acceptable) because a product should have one price with discounts for bulk orders being acceptable. Why should a shop look upon every joe public that walks in as an automatic lottery winning ticket, i.e. they know they are going to charge full price not the discount they give to 80%+ of their usual customers (tradesmen).

A product sells for what the seller thinks He can sell it for or what market forces dictate it must be sold for, A product doesn't have one price it has multiple prices, depending on who is buying it, how much they are buying at that particualr time, the likelyhood and scale of the future business of that customer and often whetheryou actually like them or not, again all based on the pricipals of the free market economy.

Why do you say I have no comprehension of how businesses work? I have outlined exactly the way businesses work, all I have said is that I disagree with it from a moral standpoint. Because I disagree with you you decide I speak "utter nonsense" and have "no comprehension" Where is my lack of comprehension exactly? hmmm? No one allowed to disagree with you hmmm?

You clearly show you don't even understand the basic principles of free trade, you probably think that a Retail recommended price is actually based on something more tangible like it's true value rather than what a seller thinks He can sell an item for, hence utter nonsence and no comprehension, it has nothing to do with disagreement, it's a simple lack of understanding the subject on which you choose to disagree.

What about the customer you charge £60 (you never said if that was inc VAT or +VAT) for the plywood that costs anyone with an ounce of sense £32 +VAT Is that customer allowed to disagree with you hmmm?

At no point in any post did I state I charged that amount, I was clearly showing the disparity in prices between trade only outlets and outlets that sell openly to anyone wishing to use them, they can sell plywood at £60 a sheet (+vat by the way) because people buy it at that price that know no better, again a fine example of the free market economy at work, personally I have an account with the trade wholesalers, I used to buy at a heavily discounted price, mark up the materils, say 30% then charge my customer, my customer was being charged less than if they bought the materials themselves, I'm making 30% on the materials, the supplier gets my regular trade and the world keeps turning, I expect you think my 30% mark up is a rip off don't you? Well wake up and smell the roses, that's called profit, and it's difference between running a profitable growing business or simply making a living wage

MyUserNamesTaken

Alan_M wrote:

Your Polish builder will not be a UK resident, so 6 months after He's finished a major problem occurs where is his guarantee, and if it comes to it how do you make him rectify the problem?

As a non UK resdient, Trading Standards are toothless, so how would you sue him? You can't. simple answer.

I'm not saying any of this will occur, but you need to be aware that it's a possibility.

As for what He charges, that's easier to expalin, He can charge so little because his living costs are so low, they chose to live cheaply in the UK and work for a calculated period of time. They earn as much as they can in that period, any of which if it isn't cash is legally declared and they pay tax (if they're honest), upon returning home to Poland they can reclaim all thier tax up to the personal allowance and leave the country with their tax free income, go back to Poland where the equivalent £450,000 house costs £45,000.

The above is based on your assumption that the Pole isn't a UK resident. You have no proof either way. Personally, I find the above insulting, as you are tarring all Poles with the same brush. Talk about stereotyping. Everything you have put in your post applies to the countless number of British cowboy builders, plumbers, sparkies, painters and roofers out there. That's the funny thing about the Construction Industry - genuine (British) tradesmen charge an absolute fortune, yet moan when Joe Public decides to employ someone who isn't in a recognised body, those same tradesmen complain like old women. Before the Poles, it was the cowboys and non-tradesmen. Incidentally, you don't know either way if the Poles who come over here to work (and some of them do reside in the UK and pay tax here) are qualified tradesmen in their fields.

Wig

Alan_M wrote:

You clearly show you don't even understand the basic principles of free trade,

I'll ignore all your other waffle just show me where in post #70 you came to this descision....(careful now, pay special attention to the first sentence ) Of course if there is anything in your post you would like me to take up please let me know.

Alan_M_2

MyUserNamesTaken wrote:

The above is based on your assumption that the Pole isn't a UK resident. You have no proof either way. Personally, I find the above insulting, as you are tarring all Poles with the same brush. Talk about stereotyping. Everything you have put in your post applies to the countless number of British cowboy builders, plumbers, sparkies, painters and roofers out there. That's the funny thing about the Construction Industry - genuine (British) tradesmen charge an absolute fortune, yet moan when Joe Public decides to employ someone who isn't in a recognised body, those same tradesmen complain like old women. Before the Poles, it was the cowboys and non-tradesmen. Incidentally, you don't know either way if the Poles who come over here to work (and some of them do reside in the UK and pay tax here) are qualified tradesmen in their fields.

That's why at the beginning of the post I clearly stated that some of the Polish builders I have come across have produced work to the standard of or if not better than many UK builders. However in the majority of cases, in my experience in the constrution business my post applies.

Also, they may be temporary residents, who as you say, pay tax, but are you aware they claim the bulk of this back upon leaving the country?

If you wish to select certain parts of a single post and remove them from the main body therefore quoting out of context, we'll be able to go back and forth all day, the point of my post orginially is it doesn't matter who you employ, Poles, Brits, Czech's, Armians, Lithuanias.....make sure you check you are employing someone that knows what they're doing, is insured if a probelm occurs, is accountable and traceable if there are future problems....does this offend you? I didn't think so, it's common sense, so read the post as whole and get a thicker skin.

Alan_M_2

Wig wrote:

I'll ignore all your other waffle just show me where in post #70 you came to this descision....(careful now, pay special attention to the first sentence ) Of course if there is anything in your post you would like me to take up please let me know.

I'm a wholesale Importer/Distributor, part of my business covers installations also, which nice little pigeon hole in your neat mind does my business fit into, and should I mark up materials? Infact should I mark up the productys I import? Good god, should I make a profit at all? Isn't profit an obscene capitalist want that brings down society! Muppet.

As for the first sentence of your post, I couldn't have given a more clear answer, you're just reinforcing the fact you simply don't comprehend how most businesses operate.

Wig

Oh you're such a teaser (slap my thighs), please explain yourself. This mere mortal is dying for your knowledge

MyUserNamesTaken

Alan_M wrote:

That's why at the beginning of the post I clearly stated that some of the Polish builders I have come across have produced work to the standard of or if not better than many UK builders. However in the majority of cases, in my experience in the constrution business my post applies.

Also, they may be temporary residents, who as you say, pay tax, but are you aware they claim the bulk of this back upon leaving the country?

If you wish to select certain parts of a single post and remove them from the main body therefore quoting out of context, we'll be able to go back and forth all day, the point of my post orginially is it doesn't matter who you employ, Poles, Brits, Czech's, Armians, Lithuanias.....make sure you check you are employing someone that knows what they're doing, is insured if a probelm occurs, is accountable and traceable if there are future problems....does this offend you? I didn't think so, it's common sense, so read the post as whole and get a thicker skin.

Actually, the bulk of your post was slagging off Polish workers who have every right to work in this country, even if they do decide to go back to Poland. You talk about people not knowing how businesses work. Do you? If you did, you'd know you have to remain competitive. As Poles are legally allowed to do what they are doing, then you have to adapt to them. You've got competition. Get over it.

Incidentally, I'm sure it's against site rules to advertise your own business on these boards. Seeing as your avatar and your location both advertise your business, I'm reporting you to abuse.

Wig

MyUserNamesTaken wrote:

Get over it.

My thoughts exactly.

Incidentally, I'm sure it's against site rules to advertise your own business on these boards. Seeing as your avatar and your location both advertise your business, I'm reporting you to abuse.

I was thinking that too, glad someone decided to do this. Not that I think he'd get many referrals from this site. :rotfl:

madfrenchgirl

AlanM is just a tight @rse who thinks too much of himself

lemme guess, he is a self made man and is always right!

Jeez, i would not like to be your kids!

Wig

Alan_M wrote:

At no point in any post did I state I charged that amount, I was clearly showing the disparity in prices between trade only outlets and outlets that sell openly to anyone wishing to use them, they can sell plywood at £60 a sheet (+vat by the way) because people buy it at that price that know no better,

I think I see a contradiction between that and this

_Alan_M wrote:

Ask yourself, am I conning you if I buy that product for £36+ vat but sell it to you at £60? The price at which it is available to you if you bought it yourself?

Do you consider that you are entitled to the price that only your builder can buy at from source you have no access to?

Personally I see the difference between the £36 and the £60 a profit margin that goes towards making a profitable business but certianly not a discount that you are automatically entitled to.

Perhaps you choose a bad example, but I think you've been caught with your finger in the pie. The normal price for the plywood is 32+VAT in my neck of the woods, so yes I'd be questioning your professionalism if you charged me 60+ VAT :eek: