Our builder won't give receipts for materials

Alan_M_2

djohn2002uk wrote:

But you didn't address my main point, not for the first time, that being that you called their charges "obscene".
And as for your earnings, I make assumptions re the importing of stone and the "obscene" profit on the 25mm sheets. And before you say I shouldn't make assumptions there are a few in your posts, (I almost certainly guarantee that there will be no VAT involved in this transaction) for one.

Almost certain, but not definate, giving room for me to be wrong, however if we care to ask, I'd hazard a more than reaonable guess I'm correct, Hence almost certain. As for my income, how you can guess what that is is beyond me, I don't know myself until the end of the year when the directors dividends are calculated, but then I don't charge per hour, I wholly own an import business. And for the record I think what accountants and solicitors charge per hour is obscene, but it's necessary evil that I must pay

Now I think we should call a halt to this whole debate, the original poster has made a decision, in my view absolutely correct based on the info she has provided and any other posts seem to me to be doing no more than self employed tradesmen trying to justify their charges.

One last point which may help some of the lay people following this thread is :- Unless you are contemplating an extension to your property or building a new house, DO NOT employ a "builder". What is a builder? A "builder" who takes on small alterations is usually "A jack of all trades and a master of none". If you need a plumber get a plumber, if you need a chippy get a chippy, the same goes for brickies, sparks and plasterers. Everyone to his own trade. That would have saved the OP a bit of hassle too.
A proper builder employs the correct tradesman for each job.

A builder is a general term that is as often misrepresented as it is accurate, A builder may work alone, fully employ a team of fitters or often subcontract to trades which He has experience or trusts, in which case He's more a site manager than a builder.

The golden rule is, get a recommendation, follow up the recommendation and ask for more then one reference, no matter what trade it is or how small the job. I have customers ask me this on a regular basis and have no problem supplying the references.

Alan_M_2

scottishlizzie wrote:

We are just going down the road of starting an extension and I'm confused and terrified. Can anyone explain the best way to go about things to minimise the risk of similar difficulties to the original poster?

I also have a few specific questions:

At what stage is it normal to get a selection of buliders out for quotes? My OH works in planning and can do pretty good drawings.
We have a list of about 5 builders all of whom have been recommended by various friends/contacts - is it acceptable to have that many provide a quote?
How much detail do they need at quote stage and what is the difference between a quote and an estimate?
Is it usual to have to pay vat on the whole job?
When you get a whole job price (which I have deduced is the normal practice from this thread) is that price usually fixed?
Is it usual for the builder to bring in all the other tradesmen?
Any rough guides to cost of a two storey side extension roughly two metres wide by six metres deep, block and render finish?

I don't mean to hijack this thread but there seem to be a lot of you reading it with loads of experience that might not join in on a new one. I'll move it if necessary.

Many thanks.

I assume you will have employed an Architect to draw up the plans for this extension and guide you through the planning. Your archtect will have builders whit whom he regualrly deals, that a good starting point as the architects reputation is at stake by recomendation.

Have any of your friends/neighbours had building work done? If they have ask them who did and if they were happy?

The best form of advertising is word of mouth advertising, referral is worth it's weight in gold.

Get detailed plans drawn up of what's required along with a bill of quantites and then get three builders to quote for you.

Always be very clear what you want and discuss details at every opportunity.

If any plans change discuss immediately and cost issues and agree these before the work is undertaken.

Stick to these basic principles and your build should go to plan.

margaretclare

Well, we have been incredibly lucky.

As some MSE people know, we're a pair of wrinklies who live in a 1930s bungalow, and over the years we've had a lotta work done. We ask around, we talk to people who've had work done, we take personal recommendations. We have people in the building trade living all around us. DH has had decades in business and he's nobody's fool.

We've just had our roof replaced, a team of 4 blokes stripped and replaced it in 4 days, just before the recent gales and downpours. This was this year's 'big project'. Everything we've had done over the years we're satisfied with. Once when we were having a heating radiator replaced, we asked the heating engineer if he knew of a reliable electrician. He did - we needed some power sockets moved, the guy did it on his way home from work. We asked if they knew a reliable plasterer - same thing, we had a ceiling re-lined and skimmed.

And make no mistake, anyone who didn't do the job to the standard we expect would be kicked into touch. We don't pay a deposit for a start, we don't pay up-front, the most we'd do would be to pay for materials (like the tiles) delivered on site. Not for a builder to put in his yard as part of his stock!

In a former life, a chippy was replacing wood panelling for us after a fire, that was in the Pennine cottage. It had been honey-coloured pine - I came home from work one day and found the chippy staining the replaced wood dark brown in contradiction of what he'd been asked to do!!! I kicked him into touch straight away, and told him he could whistle for his money.

Margaret Clare

Careful_girl

Get personal recommendation for builders from someone you know not just someone who the builders say will recommend them. I was lucky in my first house when I used a builder who was employed by a friend continuously. The friend just said any trouble and tell me!!
The difficult builder was taken on in an area where I knew nobody. I should have waited until I knew people!!!

sneekymum

scottishlizzie wrote:

My OH works in planning and can do pretty good drawings.

It is not a good idea obtain Planning Permission (if this is needed) and then try to find someone to produce the necessary drawings and information for a Building Regulations application.

A design produced by an amateur is unlikely to be economic or even buildable.

Expect to find great dificulty in finding an architect prepared to take on a domestic extension. Perhaps it's better to try an experienced "Plan Man".

woodbutcher_2

I have just deleted a very long post in reply to some of the crap written on this thread 'cos quite frankly i can't be bothered.


Loveandlight,i am sorry you have had a bad experience.For £1000 pounds a week,i would do you a cracking job and give you all the receipts you require.I hope you find someone you trust to carry on the job for you.Not all builders are bad.

woodbutcher_2

By the way,lay people of this thread.I am a builder and "jack of all trades" but contrary to popular belief i am master of all of them.

Bossyboots

djohn2002uk wrote:

A proper builder employs the correct tradesman for each job.

Thats exactly what our builder does except for the plastering which he is expert at himself.

Our builder did actually build our brick extension from a plan drawn by my hubby without any difficulty.

robowen

sneekymum wrote:

Expect to find great dificulty in finding an architect prepared to take on a domestic extension. Perhaps it's better to try an experienced "Plan Man".

What makes you say this I've seen plenty of architects who specialise in domestic properties
I wasn't aware of a shortage in this area .

rob

robowen

loveandlight wrote:

He is very absent minded. me too
Arguing and doing what he thinks we should have done in our home instead of what we want. not acceptable
. After a lot of persuasion he reduced it again to what we wanted.

He broke through into the communal area ( we live in a two storey apartment) when converting our storage room and when replacing the bricks in the common areas, he used grey cement when the wall is red brick with red cement. He assured us that he would use the same colours so that the replacement bricks wouldn’t show. not acceptable - easily fixed
When he fitted new handles on our kitchen doors, three of them were completely different. He fitted them anyway. not acceptable - easily fixed
He damaged my brand new cooker hood the first day it arrived ( my OH saw him do it ) but he pretended it came out the box like it and fitted it anyway. So we had to arrange for a new one to be sent. not acceptable - easily fixed
He scratched our new kitchen countertop when he installed it, right where it can be seen. Nobody will notice it he said. not acceptable - insist it be replaced

He told us our new Saniflow system when he installs it, can only go between our shower and toilet because it has got openings at both ends. sack him from doing this job, not competent.
He told us that we couldn’t remove one of the small walls in our kitchen because it housed the boiler due to boiler regulations. We have since found out that it is not true either. not sure on this. if the boiler is on the wall how can the wall be removed ?

He also left unattended a huge electric circular diamond saw in our front garden a couple of weeks ago, when we had very hot weather. Our garden is open plan, unfenced and anyone can walk on our grass. We live at the entrance to a very popular park. He left the saw unattended for most of the afternoon and it was unguarded and still switched on at the mains. sack him - breach of health and safety
As soon as he refused to show us the receipts for the materials. sack him. if you had an agreement in place tell him you will only pay him for the materials he can produce receipts for.

As he has so much support on here, he will be available to work for any one of you from tomorrow onwards and as you are so concerned at his hourly rate being low, I am sure he won’t mind if you pay him more.

A little unfair comment There are plenty of people who see this from a different perspective. Tradesmen and punters rarely see eye to eye on every subject.
I've tried to give a balanced opinion on his chinanigans :rolleyes: . If all the unacceptable comments aren't rectified to your satisfaction, change them to sack him. At least give him the oportunity to put them right first.
I'm still trying to work out how this builder extracts £1000 a week based on £15/h, and he clearly isn't putting in a 14hour day

rob