Our builder won't give receipts for materials

robby-01

woodbutcher were are you based if you think 15 quid is top doller

smcaul

I am curious as to why everyone thinks that the receipts are actually avaliable!! There is a high possibility that the gear is knock off and he does not have any proof of purchase!!! It is always a possibility!!!

bruce2110

wow! hot post or what!!!!

as a plumber, i all ways put a total price in for any work i do, plus, any materials i supply, i always supply materials at COST PRICE(ie the price i pay for them), as this is the only way i can compete with a) the cowboys b) the people who think that £179.00 for a full bathroom suite from wickes/homebase/do it all ect ect ect is great and represents good value for money:mad: - remeber you get what you pay for in this life!

at the end of the job, i supply an invoice for the work i have done plus a copy of all recipts, this way there is no arguments and no come comebacks regarding pricing and costs. i am a very good plumber and i dont advertise, all or most of my work comes off the back of recomendations from my customers and local builders and at the moment, i have 6 months worth of work ahead of me, another point to remember is that a good tradesman is a busy one, if the two guys you spoke too can start straight away you need to ask yourself why?

as a lot of people have said, if you any one else employs any tradesman, ensure you set out clearly what you want and how you want it done that way you can avoid many problems....like this one:rolleyes:

Bruce2110

loveandlight

I had already mentioned in my earlier posts that we have it in writing from our builder that he was being paid for his labour and petrol expenses only. We asked him to do this so it was clear fom the beginning where we both stood. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how clear an agreement is, if one party has the mindset to try and make money out of the other 'on the sly' and sneakily attempt to vary the agreement terms then they will succeed, whatever they have put in writing.

I have read every one's messages and despite a lot of hostile posting, I am confident that we did do everything correctly, and therefore, I am not upset by what a lot of you have said against us.

One poster said it was our own fault for being greedy. I had a laugh at that. Especially as we had got many quotes that actually worked out cheaper for us than the builder we chose. What was a priority to us was that we liked our builder. We believe in paying a fair price for a fair day's work, so getting our work done as cheaply as possible was not our priority. He wanted paying his hourly rate and his petrol expenses and we agreed without question.

If it was about greed on our part then even now we could easily get our builder to do all the outstanding work and then give him lots of problems over payment. But we are not like that.

We just wanted him to show or give us receipts for some materials he had bought on our behalf so we knew how much had actually been spent. He volunteered to go and get some materials as he had a big van and we didn't. If we'd had known it was going to turn out like this we would have hired a van and got him to write the stuff down he needed and we would have gone out and got the stuff ourselves.

At the end of the day he knows he is in the wrong. We all used to get on like 'a house on fire' and now our relationship is very strained and we keep our distance from him and he has lost a couple of new friends as a result.

The most laughable bit is that he is the TREASURER of his local church!!

Sadly, all we have learned, is NEVER to trust a builder, even when it has all been put down in writing!!

woodbutcher_2

Sadly,this is what i alluded to in my earlier post.Two more people that no longer trust builders.With the advent of all these rogue trader programmes,anyone would think that all builders are unscrupulous,underhand cowboys.It's sad.Neither does it help that modern society is getting greedier and greedier by the day.Seems like the only consideration when pricing a job for a lot of builders now is "how much will i make" not "how good a job can i do for the money".I'm not surprised that you feel the way you do about your builder because he is clearly in the wrong.I've dealt with church governors before and they were the tightest lot i have ever come across.

robby-01,i dont think it is top dollar,i know it is.I live in N.E.Lincs and up until recently,i was sub-contracting for a double glazing firm who were paying me £13 per hour and i had a van to run out of that,not to mention other expenses.It's one of the reasons i stopped working for them and decided to get my own work.My mate Mark still works there in the office in charge of building contracts and he says the subbies they use are on £130 per day now,which is just over the £15 per hour.My nephew still works for the company as a window fitter and he is on £7.20 an hour.He is not a tradesman but i still think he is on rubbish pay.

Alan_M_2

It is strange how you can read the same post or same situation in a different way, personally I've been self employed since my early 20's, through a recession and in the good times. One trend I've seen increase through the years is the mentality of the public at large seeming to think "Profit" is a some form of dirty word.

It stems from the paranoia of all these rouge trader programs on the TV, this will only lead in one direction, to full certification of all trades involved in the consturction industry in the same manner the USA has gone.

Personally I'd welcome this with open arms, as someone who does and always has run a legitimate business, the idea of fully certified licenced contractors at minimum fixed rates sounds ideal.

However, the days of £15 an hour builders will be a sweet memory, treble that and you'll be somewhere close to the mark.

The only people I've ever employed on an hourly basis are solicitors and accountants, and both of them charge obscene amounts of money.

I'm still of the opinion that you've brought the problem on youself, probably mostly through naievety than anything else.

One thing that has never been mentioned throughout this thread, is what work was undertaken, what materials were supplied and what charges were made, without those facts no one on this forum can form a full opinion of whether what you've been charged is reasonable or not.

Also you need to consider factors of what goods are available at what price, I buy bulk and sheet materials from Platform building supplies. A trade only outlet that requires registration and membership application of your business before you can have access, you, as a member of the public, cannot purchase materials there.

I commonly use sheets of 25mm plywood which I buy at Platform for £36 a sheet + vat.

Travis Perkins and Jewson sell the same material at Upwards of £60 a sheet, but you can drive in and buy it there yourself.

Ask yourself, am I conning you if I buy that product for £36+ vat but sell it to you at £60? The price at which it is available to you if you bought it yourself?

Do you consider that you are entitled to the price that only your builder can buy at from source you have no access to?

Personally I see the difference between the £36 and the £60 a profit margin that goes towards making a profitable business but certianly not a discount that you are automatically entitled to.

loveandlight

We have already supplied most of the materials as per our agreement. He volunteered to get the stuff as a one off basis for us for our ensuite as a lot of technical knowledge was required and a big van was needed. He volunteered to go and fetch the stuff otherwise he should have told us that he would be selling them on to us after he had bought them. He should also have made it clear to us that he would not even be letting us have sight of the receipts. All we wanted when he got back from the shop was some proof of how much the materials had cost so that we could immediately reimburse him. That is a perfectly reasonable request to make.

There will be another buying session coming up in the next couple of weeks where some technical knowledge will be required again. If he is still doing the job by then we will be making sure that we go with him this time whether he likes it or not and making sure that we pay for it.

We also have a plumber and an electrician working for us and they want paying a total price for their work with all materials supplied by them. We happily agreed to that and as such have no interest whatsoever in how much they are getting their materials for and we don't want to see any receipts either. At least we know how much their jobs will be in total.

djohn2002uk

Alan_M wrote:

Personally I see the difference between the £36 and the £60 a profit margin that goes towards making a profitable business but certianly not a discount that you are automatically entitled to.

You might see it that way but I certainly don't. Compare what you have just stated and what Bruce states in his post above (Post #24) and you can see why I would consider it a "Ripoff".
The fact that you quote what TP charge customers without an account shows that you compare prices to see the maximum you can charge people and get away with it.

I'm in a fortunate position that I used to be in the trade and had a TP account but even now I can still go there and get the discounts I've always had, even with no account and I use that to be able to get a discount for freinds and relatives.
But never have I bought goods at a discount and then charged the maximum I could get. Perhaps you should look around a bit more, you might find another firm charging even more that you could quote to your customers and make a few more quid out of the cash strapped customer.

OK, rant over, but these type of tradesmen really incense me and get the whole construction business a bad name as ripoff merchants.

Alan_M_2

See this attitude I find ridiculous, When you walk into Tesco to do your weekly shopping, and Pay 30p for an apple, do you think Tesco are ripping you off becuse they pay 4p for it and your friend in the Restuarant business buys them at 15p each?

This is profit, this money is the difference between a buisness operating and not operating.

Why is the construction industry seen as a non profit organisation?

I buy stone from Europe, I increase the price and sell it on, am I ripping you off?

I sell it shops at less money than I'll sell it to you becuase the shops have overheads and require a profit, am I ripping you off because I won't sell it to you at the same price I sell it shops?

Of course I'm not, that's business, and this "you shouldn't make anything on any products you sell me" is wrecking the economy in this country and creating a bigger black market construction economy of cash and immigrant labour.

This thread is more than the single problem of one poster with one builder, it is an attitude filtering through society as whole and it will only lead to the very items you're trying to discount and buy at cost becoming more expensive as the choice is reduced as businesses close down.

Utter shortsightedness.

djohn2002uk

You and I know that Travis Perkins are around the dearest when selling to people with no account there.
And that is the gist of my post, the fact that you would state that you would buy from the cheapest place you can find and not add on a "Reasonable" margin for profit but quote one of the dearest to maximise your margin.
That to me is taking advantage, and well might you state ethical reasons for the need to be able to make a profit, tradesmen working on a self employed basis should be able to make a living solely by charging for their labour. The occational supply and fit job can bring in a bonus in the form of a reasonable profit on the supply element but not a bonanza by screwing the customer as hard as you appear to.
Please don't whinge when your average householder labels you in a way that you don't appear to like, when you openly admit to ripping them off to the tune of 67%.
Where has the ethos gone? "A fair days pay for a fair days work" or does that only apply now to those "on the cards"?.