Howdens Traders passing on discount - Scam??

Alan_M_2

Tom_Jones wrote: »

I find it a bit unbelievable that you have one a court case against your builder in this matter, and you need to provide proof that you indeed have.

If there has indeed been a court case won, I have a feeling there is far more to this than has been explained.

I know profit is a dirty work in the UK, but I wasn't aware they'd made it illegal quite yet.

Leif

Tom_Jones wrote: »

And what are you going to prosecute the builder for what, making a profit ?

How did you get the information on the price your builder paid Howdens ? it appears by illegal means, which would be a criminal offence under Data protection laws.

Let's see the kitchen cabinet maker makes a profit when he sells to Howdens, Howdens make a profit when he sells to the builder, so why should you not expect a builder to make a profit when he sells to you ? It is none of your buisness how much profit he makes.

I find it a bit unbelievable that you have one a court case against your builder in this matter, and you need to provide proof that you indeed have.

Whilst many of your statements are reasonable, what seems to have happened here is the builder said "I will fit a kitchen for you for a fee of £X, and you will pay £6K for the kitchen" and then supplied paperwork supporting the claimed kitchen price. In fact the OP paid £X + £2K for the fitting, and £4K for the kitchen, and the fitter was fraudulently claiming to have bought the kitchen for £6K. And he provided paperwork appearing to support the claim.

I agree that had the builder said "I can provide and fit this kitchen for £Y" then the cost of the kitchen is irrelevant. It is up to the customer to agree or walk. But what we seem to have here is deception.

As others have said, exact details of the ruling are important.

jillytb

Profit is the amount received for services in excessive of the original cost but when deceit is used to gain the difference it becomes fraud. To doubt that a court case based on a builder misleading a consumer for his own personal gains could be won by a consumer really raises a question over the judgements of those that do.

neonpoppy

Alan_M wrote: »

If there has indeed been a court case won, I have a feeling there is far more to this than has been explained.

I know profit is a dirty work in the UK, but I wasn't aware they'd made it illegal quite yet.

Making a profit by misleading your customer and misinforming them should be illegal no?

Alan_M_2

jillytb wrote: »

Profit is the amount received for services in excessive of the original cost but when deceit is used to gain the difference it becomes fraud. To doubt that a court case based on a builder misleading a consumer for his own personal gains could be won by a consumer really raises a question over the judgements of those that do.

Great, so can we see the details of the case?

Alan_M_2

neonpoppy wrote: »

Making a profit by misleading your customer and misinforming them should be illegal no?

Actually I don't think that is criminal unless specifically covered by regulations such as Financial Services Authority etc.

This is why we're all waiting with baited breath for the details of the OP's court case and on what grounds the OP feels they will be able to undertake a criminal prosecution on the builder.

Unitl we're provided with details of the case and the ruling all of this is simply speculation.

jillytb

I will come back and post them. I came on here for support and advice a long time ago and was great mainly with sympathetic and sound replies and that is why I returned now to say I have followed through on what I said I was going to do and won. I was also greeted with some very cynical views then and I am pleased to see their views are still the same, profit is a dirty word...... When I have dealt with the second element I will return but the transcripts of the case will be provided to the relevant authority first.

I had not realised any update would cause such disbelief in one or two people simply not able to understand and accept that a builder misled me and I took him to court for good reason. I won and Alan M people do actually win cases against fraudsters not against people who conduct their business in a professional manner. Revisit my definition between profit and fraud..... Fraud is the dirty word to me!
Thanks all others for agreeing that what I have done is a positive thing.

I will post the details as and when the other matter has been investigated for sure.

jillytb

And Alan M the FSA is limited to financial services. You do make me "chuckle"!

olly300

jillytb wrote: »

I will come back and post them. I came on here for support and advice a long time ago and was great mainly with sympathetic and sound replies and that is why I returned now to say I have followed through on what I said I was going to do and won. I was also greeted with some very cynical views then and I am pleased to see their views are still the same, profit is a dirty word...... When I have dealt with the second element I will return but the transcripts of the case will be provided to the relevant authority first.

It may be your writing style but what in concise language did you take your builder to court on? Breach of contract? Obtaining money by deception? Misrepresentation?

Leif

I am shocked that people who work in the business think that the fraudulent behaviour described by the OP is normal business practice. It is blatant dishonesty.

As already said, the FSA regulations financial services. There is a clue in the name.