Terrified by shouting, angry farmer .. what to do next?

seven-day-weekend

I do not condone the farmer's actions in any way, but would agree with others that your dogs should be on leads. Not just because of the livestock, (although that is the most important reason) but because of the dogs.

My friend's mule (mix of horse and donkey) nearly killed a labrador. He tossed it into the air quite high and then started trampling on it when it was down. The only reason he did not kill it was that the dog's owner was close by and managed to get the dog out of the range of the hooves. My friend, who is an experienced farmer and herder, said that many animals of the equine type do not like dogs and will kill them if they can. I'm sure a cow could have a good go too, if it was so minded.

The labrador's owners always keep it on a lead now!

Tom1234

For all those quoting 'the countryside code' at the OP. You might want to take the time to read it.

You do not have to put your dog on a lead on public paths, as long as it is under close control. But as a general rule, keep your dog on a lead if you cannot rely on its obedience. By law, farmers are entitled to destroy a dog that injures or worries their animals.

The OP clearly states that her dogs were under close control.

The farmer is entitled to destroy a dog that injures or worries his animals.

He is NOT entitled to commit acts of threatening behaviour or harrassment to memebrs of the public using a public footpath.
He is NOT entitled to shoot a dog that is not attacking his livestock.
He is NOT entitled to block a public footpath, or tell people they are not permitted to use it.

@OP Please report this to the police. If nothing else it will make them aware there is a potential issue there so if he does one day decide to pull a gun and shoot someone elses dog (or god forbid a person), there is a record that it has happened before and appropriate action can be taken.

Katie-Kat-Kins

Firstly your dogs should always be on the lead when livestock are around. Make sure you always do this in future, not just because a farmer could shoot them for worrying livestock but also because dogs can provoke cows to attack.

Secondly this farmer has behaved badly, you may report him to the police, and your council's right of way department. You may also want to have a word with the Ramblers Association who will have officers who deal with this sort of thing especially if it is a regular occurence.

Pee

It was a horrid incident and it would have been much nicer had said farmer been able to approach you in a sensible controlled way, but presumably you were not the first walker with dogs off the lead.

You are entitled to walk on a footpath. I expect that a dog should always be on a lead when livestock are about and I would suggest you think carefully about using footpaths where cattle are present. There have been a few incidents this year where people have been seriously hurt by cattle who initially attacked a dog but also injured the owner.

This doesn't mean that he was right to shout at you and frighten you, that was rude of him and he should apologise, but if you are more considerate of farmers feelings in the future, by having your dog on a lead, you will be in a postition to tell them they are being rude.

Katie-Kat-Kins

There is lots of arguement about whether the dogs need to be on a lead or whether keeping them under close control is sufficient.

Keeping them under close control is fine, but it is very subjective and difficult to prove. Keeping them on the lead is absolute and clear for all to see. It reduces any doubt about whether your dogs are permanently under adequate control.

In the OPs situation, the farmer isn't to know that before they rounded the corner/hill or whatever the dogs weren't playing and that wasn't why the cows took fright. He wasn't to know how close the OP could keep the dogs or how reliably they would stay close, he just saw some cattle "skittering" down the hill. He probably assumed the worse because of pervious bad experiences.

This is why we all have a duty as responsible walkers (and cyclists and horse riders) to treat rights of way and the landowners whose land those rights of way cross with the upmost respect and at all times to behave impecably.

Putting the dogs on the lead through livestock fields, when horses or other people approach is simply good practice, and keeps your dogs safe should they behave unpredictably (as all animals have the propensity to do). Not everyone knows your dogs and many users of countryside rights of way have had previous bad experiences and may be frightened.

Some horses are terrified of loose dogs, no matter how well behaved and I'm sure some cattle can be the same, and I know that horses can tell the difference between a dog on a lead and a dog that is loose so I bet cattle can too.

adouglasmhor

KatP wrote: »

Firstly your dogs should always be on the lead when livestock are around. Make sure you always do this in future, not just because a farmer could shoot them for worrying livestock but also because dogs can provoke cows to attack.

Secondly this farmer has behaved badly, you may report him to the police, and your council's right of way department. You may also want to have a word with the Ramblers Association who will have officers who deal with this sort of thing especially if it is a regular occurence.

You like so many other people have failed to read the thread's previous posts which show the law and the country code do not say this.

My personal choice is leads on near livestock but there is no legal obligation as long as the dogs are under control.

DrScotsman

Tom1234 wrote: »

The OP clearly states that her dogs were under close control.

The farmer is entitled to destroy a dog that injures or worries his animals.

He is NOT entitled to commit acts of threatening behaviour or harrassment to memebrs of the public using a public footpath.
He is NOT entitled to shoot a dog that is not attacking his livestock.
He is NOT entitled to block a public footpath, or tell people they are not permitted to use it.

@OP Please report this to the police. If nothing else it will make them aware there is a potential issue there so if he does one day decide to pull a gun and shoot someone elses dog (or god forbid a person), there is a record that it has happened before and appropriate action can be taken.

^This, among other posts.

Forget "your word against his" and forget "storm in a teacup" - he has commited one very serious crime among other less serious one(s), so report him to the police. I mean obviously he won't get prosecuted because of those two reasons, but they'll probably have a word with him which will definitely do good. And like Tom said, there will be a record, also good.

adouglasmhor

KatP wrote: »

There is lots of arguement about whether the dogs need to be on a lead or whether keeping them under close control is sufficient.

Keeping them under close control is fine, but it is very subjective and difficult to prove. Keeping them on the lead is absolute and clear for all to see. It reduces any doubt about whether your dogs are permanently under adequate control.
Or he could ask
In the OPs situation, the farmer isn't to know that before they rounded the corner/hill or whatever the dogs weren't playing and that wasn't why the cows took fright. He wasn't to know how close the OP could keep the dogs or how reliably they would stay close, he just saw some cattle "skittering" down the hill. He probably assumed the worse because of pervious bad experiences.
he is a fool then, he should have asked but he was to busy being a bully
This is why we all have a duty as responsible walkers (and cyclists and horse riders) to treat rights of way and the landowners whose land those rights of way cross with the upmost respect and at all times to behave impecably.
True but that does not mean accepting abuse from them
Putting the dogs on the lead through livestock fields, when horses or other people approach is simply good practice, and keeps your dogs safe should they behave unpredictably (as all animals have the propensity to do). Not everyone knows your dogs and many users of countryside rights of way have had previous bad experiences and may be frightened.
They should do something about mastering their fear instead of lashing out like children or animals they are adults anfter all
Some horses are terrified of loose dogs, no matter how well behaved and I'm sure some cattle can be the same, and I know that horses can tell the difference between a dog on a lead and a dog that is loose so I bet cattle can too.

It's not my choice to have dogs off the lead where there is livestock, but sometimes on rough tracks or climbing paths you need to do it as a dog's natural movement can pull you over (they climb totaly differently from us). Perhaps if the farmer in this story had approached calmly instead of full of bluster it would not have come to this. I know of at least one farmer in Scotland being jailed for shooting a dog for not being on the lead where he had no justification.

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

I think it is just common sense to be honest - i'll probably get slated for saying that but being someone who grew up terrified of dogs (i still am unsure of some) i keep my dogs on a lead or at my heel while i hold them by the collar if there are people passing. My dogs will happily saunter past anyone without batting an eyelid but i try to think of others first. I know how terrifying it can be walking a path where unleashed dogs are - you never know if they are ''good'' or not. And a so-called ''good'' dog that comes anywhere near you when you are walking can still petrify you.

Now if other animals are about the lead goes straight on, this includes other dogs as yes i trust my own but i don't trust others - there are countless amount of times when my dogs have been on lead and others have too excitedly bounded over and caused a stir and you have to tell the owners to take their dogs away. I don't mind if they come and sniff as mine don't mind that but they'll still be on lead so i have some control if a sutuation arrises. They are animals and animals can be unpredictable even if they are well trained.

To me it is just common courtesy. Not everyone likes dogs, this includes walkers, kids, runners and farmers, and i respect that. If you dog so much as stops and looks at the cattle or horses it can cause a problem - animals act on body language, the slightest thing (beit nothing at all in our eyes) could trigger a problem.

Still i think agree the farmer was wrong. I don't agree with dogs being off lead around livestock whether it is law or not. Two wrongs don't make a right though - in my opinion you have every right to contact the police and please do so as you feel so strongly about it, just please learn from it on your own side too.

I walk and climb hilly cliff areas with my dogs, all you need is a retractable lead, if they know not to pull too far ahead you don't get the dangerous pulling from them that could cause a fall.

adouglasmhor

I use two poles when doing hill tracks but a retractable lead is great the rest of the time.

I have mananged to do a full sumersault under my bergan on Skye with no dogs present at all. The Cuillins are still Beautiful upside down though. This was in November so no sheep (or farmers) were on the tops anyway.