Terrified by shouting, angry farmer .. what to do next?

ceridwen

bestpud wrote: »

Isn't losing your temper with people causing unnecessary aggro...?

FWIW, no I don't tend to lose my temper with and/or shout at people!

..well...if it is...then I am in extremely good company - even Jesus lost his temper with the moneylenders in the temple:D - sometimes its justified (on a very very rare - thats the only way to deal with a situation - basis).
What ISNT justified is to turn it into a "fight" subsequently.

YorkiePud_3

I have to admit I have only read the first page ... enough to know that dogs that are off the lead around livestock will ALWAYS be a threat regardless of how well behaved you believe they are or how in control of them you think you can be.

The cattle could have spooked your dogs and your dogs could have attacked them, protecting you .... any farmer would see unleashed dogs (regardless of breed) as a threat.

Did you know there were livestock there? If so, you should have put them on a lead. If you didn't know they were there, then it was your responsibility to get their leads on as soon as you saw them.

For your own dogs sake also .... I have seen the state of a dog that had been kicked by a cow ... not nice.

A responsible dog owner will ALWAYS put their pet on a lead around livestock ... for the sake of the livestock, for the sake of the pet and for the sake of avoiding any irate confrontations between you and the farmer who was, after all, just protecting his living.

paddy's_mum

I'm sorry that my question seems to have sparked off such a volume of diametrically opposed views - seems to be like Marmite ...

It may be that I didn't get across the facts properly, or omitted to include some revealing aspect of the incident, but I have been frankly astounded by the number of people who think that a personal lecture on putting my dogs on leads is the appropriate response and that should be the end of the matter. That kind of response pre-supposes two things, I think. It assumes that the innocuous, lawful, quiet passage of a walker and two tightly controlled dogs past quietly grazing cattle on a massive tract of land is somehow inciting/inviting/provoking large animals to attack. It also assumes that I simply told a pack of lies in explaining what happened. I will have learned something from this thread - don't tell the whole truth in future! It is no good saying what might have happened or what ought to have happened. The facts are as I gave them.

I'm sure most people have seen a thriller film where the poor heroine finally gets away from the man who wants to murder her only to run panic stricken into a dark alley, looking over her shoulder to see if he is following her, and turns to find the assailant's buddy physically blocking the alley. That gasping, stomach dropping perception of danger is what it felt like to me to see a burly, unknown but clearly hostile man rushing towards me on a lonely track, with no nearby houses, a deep river on one side and a high barbed wire fence and deep drain on the other.

I have also come to realise that if the farmer truly believed that my dogs were unsafe and/or out of control, what on earth possessed him to approach me as he did. He came on in an arm-swinging, loud and aggressive manner, on a narrow footpath, with my dogs at my heels, where he ran a genuine risk of being bitten should my dogs decide that his aggression was very much their business? Only an idiot threatens a properly bred and devoted Border Collie. No doubt, there would have been a Daily Mail like chorus of "put 'em down". No doubt, their biting to defend me from an unknown, shouting man coming within a couple of feet of me would also have been my own fault.

I have decided to deal with the aggression he displayed and the threats offered by writing directly to the farmer concerned. I have explained that what he thought he saw was not in fact what happened, although I recognise and acknowledge how and why he assumed the worst. I have apologised that my dogs were not on leads, as he expected that they should be, but also explained why and that I passed all but the couple of inattentive steers at some distance. I have ended by saying that frightening the wits out of lone women in lonely places is not going to earn him any brownie points with either the landowners or the Police. It is now out of my hands and up to him whether he thinks that perhaps he over-reacted and learns from the incident.

I thank all who responded but particularly those who saw past the on/off lead aspect, especially Redcedar who described the behaviour of her own cattle as a mirror image in words of what happened to me.

Now I shall sit back and await the outcry in the future regarding the man who is killed by evil, drug-crazed thugs forcing his car off the road. Well ... he didn't have a current MOT and hadn't told DVLA that he changed address so his death must have been his own fault, mustn't it?

poet123

To be fair, if you really read most of the responses, you will see that in the main they say that despite the fact that the dogs were not on a lead the farmer was very much out of order. They just asked that you acknowledged your part in the issue. In fact very much along the lines of your own quote below.

paddy's_mum wrote: »

I have explained that what he thought he saw was not in fact what happened, although I recognise and acknowledge how and why he assumed the worst. I have apologised that my dogs were not on leads, as he expected that they should be,

QUOTE]

On a forum though, you will get comment you may not like, but people tell it as they see it. You do it yourself on occasion.;)

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

Paddys mum - i think your letter is a great idea. As i said before contact with the farmer may be the best way rather than kicking up a stink about it, a letter is great as it gives you a chance to explain yourself but appologise too. It is then down to him to work on his part and be a better citizen in future.

I think 99.9% of us completely agree that the farmer was very very wrong and we do not condone what he done at all. I think the reason for the leads arguments came when you became deffensive as to why they didn't have leads on when it was mentioned that they should have, if you had put your hands up and said oops maybe i won't do that bit again then you'd have had a fairly different outcome.

I don't really see it as wrong as such, i just gave my opinion based on someone who has grown up fearful of other dogs, for that reason mine are kept on a lead 99% of the time. I am too aware of the bad outcomes which you may not have been, which is not a fault of your own, it's just a learning curve and you were innocent to it.

Just keep them on lead around livestock, more for their safety if you like, and then if they are as well behaved as you say (and i believe you) then let them loose at all other times. A situation is less likely to occur if they are kept leashed around animals though, you won't get the assumptions from the farmer that you did.

There is no personal attack here, well not from me i promise. But i am scared of other dogs and do thank and appreciate owners that keep theirs on leash or very close control around me or my doggies

paddy's_mum

Touche! :rotfl:

Becc4

Paddys mum.... I think you should have looked up the country code regarding dogs on farm land even with footpaths before posting.

I goes something like this..(sorry if it doesn't help your case)
Control your dog so that it does not scare or disturb farm animals or wildlife.

When using the new access rights over open country and common land, you must keep your dog on a short lead between 1 March and 31 July – and all year round near farm animals – and you may not be able to take your dog at all on some areas or at some times. Please follow any official signs.

You do not have to put your dog on a lead on public paths, as long as it is under close control. But as a general rule, keep your dog on a lead if you cannot rely on its obedience. By law, farmers are entitled to destroy a dog that injures or worries their animals.
www.countrysideaccess.gov.uk

also I live in the countryside, a valley in south wales and am surrounded by farms, some of which are friends, they will also tell you of the thousands of pounds lost through attacked animals and animals that get sick through dog feaces... And yes I am a dog owner, but would never risk walking my dog on farm land there have been several incidences of cattle charging at dog walkers and in one local case the lady .

Horasio

The farmer sounded frightened by your dogs being loose around his livestock and lacked any good manners and politeness in his approach. Using an intimidating and threatening manner to a member of the public is a definite no no but it is difficult to prove.

Perhaps you were the nth person to annoy him in this way and you got the flack.

However, it is wise to keep dogs on a lead in the countryside near livestock. Some dogs are not well trained and could cause a lot of damage and distress.

ceridwen

So - I guess that sums up everyone's feelings - I think we all agree the farmer went overboard with the way he expressed his anger, but it was perfectly understandable that he was upset (because the dogs werent on a lead - and he wasnt to know what they personally are like and dogs can be unpredictable in behaviour anyway).

.....errrr.....and some of us are wondering who this poster "gwhizz75" is who has a witness to your incident...........

aliasojo

ceridwen wrote: »

So - I guess that sums up everyone's feelings - I think we all agree the farmer went overboard with the way he expressed his anger, but it was perfectly understandable that he was upset (because the dogs werent on a lead - and he wasnt to know what they personally are like and dogs can be unpredictable in behaviour anyway).

It doesn't sum up my feelings. Far too many posters have based their replies on everything other than the actual facts as have been written by the OP.

'Some dogs', 'the farmer thought', 'perhaps' etc etc.

The only things that should be considered are those that actually happened, not those that people surmise might have happened.

There can be a million reasons why the farmer did as he did, but not one will justify him.

Would you all be as accommodating if he had approached you or one of your adult children in this manner? I suspect benevolence is more readily available behind a computer screen and your feelings would be less forgiving if you or yours had experienced fear in this way.

So please don't try to sum up for us all ceridwen, I completely disagree with what you've posted.