crash law

NigeWick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

Ironicaly enough Nige, its the very first bit.

[/INDENT]In killing me, you would cause personal injury to me and would therfore would have the duty to stop, report the accident to Police and give details.

>>>(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

(3) If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident. <<<

By following (2) to the letter, the Police do not need to be involved as in (3) because I have given the correct details to a person so requiring (your loved one), therefore complying with the act. Had I failed to stop and/or not provided those details then I would have had to report the crash to the Police.

sebdangerfield

Yes Nige, and all of those points you've posted are subsection of 170 entitled Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents.

Report being the operative word.

NigeWick

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

The act as written clearly gives space for not exchanging details at the scene?

No it doesn't.

The requirement is to stop AND give details to any person having reasonable grounds for requiring them. In the scenario I am trying to get across to Seb, it's his loved one who has grounds for requiring my information and by giving it I comply with the act. With the previously quoted case of a maiden in distress, common sense will dictate that no prosecution will result, but, the offence will be complete if she fails to stop at the scene and provide the relevant details to a person who has reasonable grounds for requiring them.

NigeWick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

Yes Nige, and all of those points you've posted are subsection of 170 entitled Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents.

Report being the operative word.

>>>(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of a motor vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—

(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,

the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.<<<

Having produced the documents to your loved one AT THE TIME the act is complied with and the Police do not need to be called.

Good this, innit? :beer:

sebdangerfield

Ok, the easy version for you Nige.

So, You've injured someone so 1a below is applicable

(1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a Mechanically Propelled Vehicle on a road or other public place, an accident occurs by which - (a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that vehicle, or

Now you have some choices. 5 is when 1a is applicable (in this case it is) or, the driver does not at the time of the accident produce a certificate of insurance. The or bit doesn't matter here as 1a (injury) has happened. The or bit is for damage only.

(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act -
(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.

So, you've caused injury. The two choices a and b above are different but, amazingly, both state you must report the accident.

You're right, it is fun. I've made a very good living out of this.

NigeWick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

So, you've caused injury. The two choices a and b above are different but, amazingly, both state you must report the accident.

This bit is the relevant one here >>>the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act -<<<

I don't need to choose as I produced AT THE TIME to your loved one (person having reasonable grounds for requirement). :j

Want a highly paid advisor?

sebdangerfield

I'd prefer a copper who knows a bit of law!

Why do you keep ommiting the relevent parts of your quotes Nige?

For example, you put;

the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act -<<<

Wheras all of it is;

(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security,

and low and behold, 1a being an injury being caused and you need to report it.

Did you get sacked Nige?

NigeWick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

I'd prefer a copper who knows a bit of law!

Why do you keep ommiting the relevent parts of your quotes Nige?

For example, you put;

the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act -<<<

Wheras all of it is;

(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security,

and low and behold, 1a being an injury being caused and you need to report it.

Did you get sacked Nige?

You're still not seeing it. Look at your quote just above. >>>does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security<<< By producing them at the time, to a person who has reasonable grounds for requiring them, I have complied.

Please, make contact with a Traffic Officer in your area and ask under what criteria an RTA (RTC nowadays I believe) does not have to be reported to the Police. (S)he will say something like "When the Road Traffic Act has been complied with," "When names and addresses have been swapped if it is a non injury, plus insurance if there is an injury" or similar.

cyclonebri1

NigeWick wrote: »

If it is the same as England, it is an offence for the driver of a vehicle involved in a crash involving injury to another person, or, damage to another's property to leave the scene, or, report it to the police as soon as is practicable. If I remember correctly, the soon as practicable is within 24 hours even if there is a good reason not to go straight to the Police. Same requirement if hitting dog, goat, cattle, horse, a_ss (I don't know why it doesn't say donkey), pig, mule or sheep.

You seem to be arguing with yourself here Nige. After reading your last post to me I thought I'd look at your original one, 1st quoted here.

The bold bit which I still totally agree with, given extenuating circumstances, states there are times when it is not practical or possible to report the details direct and that it is then an option to report directly to the police.
I understand what seb is saying, and he's right, you do not want the hassle of having to prove you had good reason for not reporting to the other party at the time.
:beer:

NigeWick

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

I understand what seb is saying, and he's right, you do not want the hassle of having to prove you had good reason for not reporting to the other party at the time.

Seb is wrong. And, not wanting hassle does not come in to the letter of the law.

I have reproduced the whole section again below. Part (1) defines the type of incident that the section is dealing with. Part (2) states that the driver MUST stop at the scene and provide details to any person there who has reasonable grounds to require them. The only reason a driver need not stay there is if there is nobody there who has reasonable grounds to take/give details. Having stopped and swapped the correct details, the act has been complied with and the driver may depart with a clean conscience, as long as there are no allegations of wrong doing. Part (3) says that any driver who does/can/will not comply fully with (2) must report the collision to the Police. This is obviously the bit that is throwing Seb. Part (4) again mentions the either/or part of Parts (2) and (3). The operative word be OR, get it yet Seb? Part (5) enhances part (1 (a)) and refers to an injury and it says if the driver does not produce his insurance certificate “to some person having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to do it” at the time, the collision must be reported.


Duties in case of accident
170 Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents

(1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which—
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that motor vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused—
(i) to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.

(2) The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

(3) If for any reason the driver of the motor vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

(4) A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.

(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—
(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.
This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.

(6) To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver—
(a) must do so at a police station or to a constable, and
(b) must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.

(7) A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5) above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if, within five days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when the accident was reported.

(8) In this section “animal” means horse, cattle, a_ss, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog.