crash law

cyclonebri1

NigeWick wrote: »

If one does not stop at the scene, that person can not give details to any interested party. "must stop" being the operative words. There is no opt out at all.

" If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address"

This bit is in case there is nobody at the scene who has reasonable grounds to want details. Such as, killing a sheep or hitting a road sign in the middle of nowhere.

If nobody is injured, there is still the damage part of the act. There is a requirement to give details (not insurance, licence or MOT however these are required if there is an injury to any person other than the driver) or report the crash to the Police. If an interested party believes that an offence has been committed, the crash must be reported even if it is only damage.

I'm not arguing about the "must stop" issue, that is made very clear and as I've stated earlier is easily satisfied.

The other bit gives reason for not exchanging at the time, not stopping. The classic reason being a lone female faced with a tatooed moron weilding a wheel brace, it's not just because there is no one else there.

I think it's another case of "clear ambiguity", ;), in the act as written, especially if it takes a court case reference to clarify it.

NigeWick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

The only person who can require thease are the police, not someone you had an accident with.

Incorrect. The law requires that one provides certain details, not an interested party demanding them. If the interested persons do not exchange the correct details, then the Police have to be informed by law. A Police Officer in uniform may stop any motor vehicle on a road and require production of certain documents.

The second part of your point comes down to common sense, not intimate knowledge of the law. If an interested party thinks/claims another has done something wrong then the Police have to be called.

The law states what is required in given sets of circumstances, and, if those requirements are not met, the Police have to be called, again to comply with the law.

NigeWick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

Please explain this sliding scale?

No injury and no damage to anything other than the driver's own vehicle. No requirement to provide details. No injury to another but damage to anything other than the drivers motor vehicle, there is the requirement to stop and provide name and address of driver and owner/registered keeper if different. Injury to any person other than the driver requires stopping and providing the last lot plus insurance details and this is where most people fail as they do not carry their insurance certificate with them so cannot quote the certificate number and company. If these details are not provided, or, somebody at the scene thinks that something is not correct, then the Police must be contacted to deal with the incident.

Therefore if one is involved in a fatal crash with only the driver's vehicle involved with say a pedestrian and provides the details relevant in law, and, the only person at fault is agreed to be the deceased by all interested parties, the Police do not need to be involved. If the deceased is solo, then obviously the Police must be informed in order to sort out the legal aspects.

NigeWick

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

The other bit gives reason for not exchanging at the time, not stopping. The classic reason being a lone female faced with a tatooed moron weilding a wheel brace, it's not just because there is no one else there.

There is no excuse in law, just common sense applied by the authorities. If there is damage to anything other than the driver's vehicle, or, injury to anybody other than the driver then the driver must stop. If there is damage to anything other than the driver's vehicle and nobody else there, then it must be reported as soon as practicable, and in any case within 24 hours.

sebdangerfield

You've not answered any of the question Nige. Please explain what this sliding scale is?

As i've already said, you need only exchange name and address of driver and owner of vehicle and registration number of the vehicle. It's really simple to see for yourself Nige, it's a major part of the RTA 1988 and if you have any knowlege of the law you'l know this. Here it is to make it easier for you, the relevent part's at the bottom, I've even highlited it.


Road Traffic Act 1988 s 170 Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents
(1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which—
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that motor vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused—
(i) to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2) The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

As I said before, no person involved in the accident has the power or reason to see the documents you state i.e, Driving license, tax, mot. Only a Police officer in unform has the power to demand these.

I hope this clears this up Nige, you don't quote any fact of law in any part of your argument so it's fairly obvious you don't have the relevent to knowledge regarding law to make the argument you do.

cyclonebri1

NigeWick wrote: »

There is no excuse in law, just common sense applied by the authorities. If there is damage to anything other than the driver's vehicle, or, injury to anybody other than the driver then the driver must stop. If there is damage to anything other than the driver's vehicle and nobody else there, then it must be reported as soon as practicable, and in any case within 24 hours.

Nige, you have just stated what I have being argueing over the last few pages,,

Pull your neck back in mate,:rolleyes:

goldspanners

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Nige, you have just stated what I have being argueing over the last few pages,,

Pull your neck back in mate,:rolleyes:

anything in the name of a good arguement on the boards these days bri. :rolleyes:

NigeWick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

You've not answered any of the question Nige. Please explain what this sliding scale is?

As i've already said, you need only exchange name and address of driver and owner of vehicle and registration number of the vehicle. It's really simple to see for yourself Nige, it's a major part of the RTA 1988 and if you have any knowlege of the law you'l know this. Here it is to make it easier for you, the relevent part's at the bottom, I've even highlited it.


Road Traffic Act 1988 s 170 Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents
(1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which—
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that motor vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused—
(i) to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2) The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

As I said before, no person involved in the accident has the power or reason to see the documents you state i.e, Driving license, tax, mot. Only a Police officer in unform has the power to demand these.

I hope this clears this up Nige, you don't quote any fact of law in any part of your argument so it's fairly obvious you don't have the relevent to knowledge regarding law to make the argument you do.

I tried using "sliding scale" as an anlogy and it obviously failed.

People at the scene do not need to "demand" the information as the requirement to provide it is written in the law. The law requires that the information to be provided is driver details and owner/registered keeper where damage is caused and adds insurance details if there is an injury. If the driver does not cause any damage to anything other than his own vehicle and/or only inures himself, there is not requirement to report the incident. If however, he damages anything other than his own vehicle and/or injures anybody apart from himself, then the requirement in law is there to provide information to any person who has an interest. If all information is provided and any person with an interest believes that the driver has done something wrong during the incident then the Police should still be called so that evidence can be gathered and a decision made as to whether to prosecute or not.

As somebody who dealt with crashes professionally for over twenty two years, I believe I do have the relevant knowledge. I will admit that I may not be able to explain the law to your satisfaction.

sebdangerfield

My satisfaction is simply to state the truth, backed up by the relevent fact, act and section so everybody can see. This is something you've not done, even in the face of adversity you've continued to argue a point in law that the Road Traffic Act 1988 simply doesn't include.

Almost the entire act by now has been posted up here for all to see, i've highlighted the relevent parts that state the requirement for the drivers to stay at the scene and what exact details need to be exchanged. Those details are name and address of the driver and owner of the vehicle and the registration number of the vehicle, nothing more. The act does not anywhere mention the exchange of insurance details with anybody at the scene and nore does it descriminate where an accident includes damage to another person's property or injury to another, both are accidents which must be reported regardless, contrary to what you say.

I also can't find anywhere the act allows the driver of a vehicle to not report a fatal accident if the dead persons passenger admits the dead driver was fault! I have no idea what sort of accidents you dealt with for over 22 years but i'd worry if you dealt with mine!

You really are posting absolute rubbish without backing any of it up with fact. I sincerly doubt you dealt with any type of accidents or indeed have any knowledge of the RTA 1988 at all, you obviously don't read the bits of it posted up here very well. Just out if interest what capacity exactly did you deal with these incidents?

deano19690

I had an accident in london few years back,
woman drove in to the side of my car, just a dented wing.
No probs, we exchanged details....

But just to be on the safe side, i went to report it to the police...

They weren`t even Intrested !!!!!




short story

---

The only reason i went to do this was cos a few months earlier my cousin was driving out in the country and a horse bolted from the grass verge on to the road, so she stopped.... the horse then banged into her stationary car....
Being a new driver she was unsure what to do, the horse rider just carried on,
so she continued her journey just up the road to a caravan site she was staying at.... few hours later at the c.van site a policeman approached her about the accident and she got taken to court for failing to stop at an accident and failing to report an accident.... ££££fine and 9 penalty points on her license....
AND it wasnt even her fault !!!!!!
and how long do you get to report an `accident` after its happened...
the copper was on her after about 2-3 hours,
maybe she was gonna report it later that day....