They wont give me Cashback!

bathing-ape

Hello, Im a long time lurker and always use the site..... but i really need some help on this one.

Basically I took out a contract with Orange at the end of March this year and I did that through Mobiles.co.uk

The deal was £35 per month with half price line rental for 14 months. I wasnt to sure on the how the cashback worked so on the 7th of September I emailed through the website asking them how the cashback worked and what bills should I send. They got back to me saying this:

Hello,

To claim your discounted line rental, we will need to receive the following bills within 30 days of each of their bill dates. We need to receive the pages which show your name, address, mobile number and tariff.

September 2009
December 2009
March 2010
June 2010
September 2010

The bills can be e-mailed to: cashback@mobiles.co.uk
Or posted to:

Cashback Dept
Mobiles.co.uk
6 Greenhill Crescent
Watford Business Park
Watford
WD18 8RF

We do recommend if posting them you use Royal Mail recorded or special delivery.

Regards,

So I thought OK when I get my bill for September I will send it off to them.

Today I checked online with Orange and my bill for September had come through so I attached it to an email and sent it on.

I will put in the emails back and forth below:

Hello,

Thank your for your october 09 bill, but we needed your september 09 bill to process your claim unfortunately its now too late. Please send your december 09 bill for your next claim.

Regards,

Cash Back Team

Hello,

If you refer to the email that I just sent you can see that in the email replied to it says "To claim your discounted line rental, we will need to receive the following bills within 30 days of each of their bill dates" then lists the months with September included. Naturally the bill for September would be the bill showing the costs from the beginning of September to the end of September (which is what I sent you). It was not explained to me that it had to be the bill that showed call charges for August. If this was the bill that you wanted for me to qualify for cashback it should of be explained in the email response I got when I initially enquired. Under these circumstances I believe you should review this issue and reconsider your reasons for rejecting my claim based on the fact that I had misleading information from you in the first place.

Regards,

George

Hello,

Every Orange bill will have a date and tax point which is the bill date and is at the top of each page of your Orange bill. This needs to say September 2009.

Regards,

--
Nicholas Twigg
Senior Cashback Administrator

Hello,

I appreciate that the bill says October but if you refer back to the email I originally received it doesn't say 'the bill you send needs to say September 2009', as I previously explained all it says is "To claim your discounted line rental, we will need to receive the following bills within 30 days of each of their bill dates", and that is what I sent, the bill dates from the 5th of September to the 4th of October, which is the bill I received in October (hence it says October 2009 at the top) but shows the usage for the month of September. If I sent the bill that said September 2009 on the top then that would be from the 5th of August to the 4th of September, which would be the bill for August. Its extremely vague and unclear of exactly what to send and when on your website and is just as unclear in the email response I got from your team. I am not the kind of person that would miss the opportunity to reclaim money that was promised to me that is why I contacted you in the first place. If you could please process my claim for cashback I will send the bill for November (that will be dated 5th December) when the time comes. Thank you.

George

Hello,

We have not received your September 2009 bill within the 30 day timeframe so unfortunately are unable to authorise payment of your claim.

Regards,

--
Nicholas Twigg
Senior Cashback Administrator

Im really frustrated because that was my understanding of how it worked a bill would be a period of time for that month in question not the date of when the bill was issued and if I got that wrong then thats not really my fault if they didnt explain it clearly when I asked in the first place. And thinking about it surely the cashback team member should of advised me to send the bill for September then when I enquired initially.

Im devastated becuase I was relying on that money but now thats it, they just seem to come back with short 'I dont care' attitude responses. Is there anything I can do? Maybe contact trading standards?

Any help would be appreciated

Guys_Dad

Wait for reply from MobileJunkie who may be able to help better than I can, but I can anticipate him saying that he advises people to keep a copy of their t&c at the time and not to take up cashbacks unless they are sure they know what they are doing.

Your post contains the following "............on the7th of September I emailed through the website asking them how the cashback worked and what bills should I send."

We that may be a bit late to find out.

Certainly, from other posts on here, they had a section on their web site in September - I know 'cos I fell out with MJ a tad at the time over this very company - that spelt out what bills should be sent.

But bear with me

Their t&c currently reads as follows. See the bit in red below:-

Please send your bills at the months indicated as per above instructions. For the avoidance of doubt month 6 will be the bill dated in the month that is 6 months after your connection date (the date displayed on your invoice). E.g. If connected in January, the sixth month will be July so we need to receive your July bill within 60 days of the date on that bill. All other bill dates are calculated in the same way.
Important: The above bills must be sent to us and arrive within 60 days of the date on the relevant airtime bill. Claims received after this time cannot be processed. We will acknowledge receipt of your claim by email.


I think you may be on weak ground on the date of the actual bill, but it looks like their cashback team are not up to date with their t&c as they now stand.


Refer Nicholas Twigg to the current t&c and ask for your money as per their current t&c, but send in your previous bill when you do

Heliflyguy

Sorry to hear of your problem.
I managed to get one cash back contract all paid up ok and then the next one I took out a couple of years ago I screwed up and lost about £200 as there had been some subtle changes on which bill to send back and when, if you missed one bill or sent the wrong one in you lost the remaining cash back payments, I swore (many times) that I will never sign up to another one.

I doubt there is anything you can do, look on the bright side you have only lost one cash back payment.
Sorry not much help, good luck with getting it sorted.

Quentin

Their e-mail does seem ambiguous as you have said.

But the e-mail isn't too relevant.

When dealing with these companies cashback schemes, you need to realise you are in a game.

To win, you must stick to the rules. These are set out when you buy the phone - but the other side want to win (by being able to legitimately decline your claim - that is why they use ambiguous ts + cs and answer queries ambiguously). You broke the rules and they won!

Definitely see what TS have to say - your best chance is if they (or your solicitor) advises their ts + cs are unfairly written and if so are prepared to take the matter up for you, or if you are prepared to take legal action yourself, based on your solicitor's advice.

Guys_Dad

Quentin wrote: »

Their e-mail does seem ambiguous as you have said.

But the e-mail isn't too relevant.

When dealing with these companies cashback schemes, you need to realise you are in a game.

To win, you must stick to the rules. These are set out when you buy the phone - but the other side want to win (by being able to legitimately decline your claim - that is why they use ambiguous ts + cs and answer queries ambiguously). You broke the rules and they won!

Definitely see what TS have to say - your best chance is if they (or your solicitor) advises their ts + cs are unfairly written and if so are prepared to take the matter up for you, or if you are prepared to take legal action yourself, based on your solicitor's advice.

See my previous post. Don't you think it worth a punt on the current t&c along the lines I suggested first? Use their t&c to work for OP as it seems that their customer services have overlooked the change from 30 days to 60 days which has only just happened recently, as you know.

Quentin

Guys_Dad wrote: »

But bear with me

Their t&c currently reads as follows. See the bit in red below:-

Please send your bills at the months indicated as per above instructions. For the avoidance of doubt month 6 will be the bill dated in the month that is 6 months after your connection date (the date displayed on your invoice). E.g. If connected in January, the sixth month will be July so we need to receive your July bill within 60 days of the date on that bill. All other bill dates are calculated in the same way.
Important: The above bills must be sent to us and arrive within 60 days of the date on the relevant airtime bill. Claims received after this time cannot be processed. We will acknowledge receipt of your claim by email.


I think you may be on weak ground on the date of the actual bill, but it looks like their cashback team are not up to date with their t&c as they now stand.


Refer Nicholas Twigg to the current t&c and ask for your money as per their current t&c, but send in your previous bill when you do

Raising false hopes with this one.

The current ts + cs only apply to sales since they were introduced (last month).

Strange that this firm (whose rep claimed them to be the "fairest" on line retailer) were actually the last of the CPW group to fall in line with OFCOM over the window in which to send in claims.

And clearly still won't follow OFCOM's guidelines for all the contracts in existence prior to September 2009!

mobilejunkie

This is in fact pretty straightforward. The t&c in question (I naturally have a copy of those) all depend on the CONNECTION date - although Mobiles.co.uk have subsequently attempted to squirm out of that on at least two occassions publicly on here. Ignore when you ordered the phone (under THESE t&c - they are different now). It's all about when you were CONNECTED. If that was in March (your first bill will make it clear when the contract was connected unless it is T-Mobile perhaps - in which case you first need to get written confirmation from them as to the actual connection date).

Next - if you were connected in MARCH you cannot expect payment because YOU have stuffed up (as Guy's Dad said it is a very basic groundrule that anyone embarking on any cashback contract knows what is required BEFORE they do!) and should be grateful that you can claim subsequent cashbacks on the same contract. Naturally THAT depends on whether YOU understand when to claim and with what bill.

If you were CONNECTED in April then the dealer is WRONG and your claim using the OCTOBER bill is perfectly valid. IF they refuse to pay on receipt of THAT bill from you within 30 days of its date you can sue - and will win. Of course, you will need to prove everything - again, if you follow the groundrules that isn't a problem (otherwise it is).

Whilst this dealer is completely dishonest and the warnings I and others have been giving for some time have repeatedly been shown to be valid, I would not expect them to pay a claim where the claimant has stuffed up and broken the t&c - even though the dealer thinks they have the right to ignore them whenever it suits (in which case they can and should be held to account).

Quentin

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Don't you think it worth a punt on the current t&c along the lines I suggested first? Use their t&c to work for OP as it seems that their customer services have overlooked the change from 30 days to 60 days which has only just happened recently, as you know.

No.

As previously posted, they don't want to pay out unless they have to.

They don't apply the current ts + cs across the board - only to purchases made under them (they came into effect on 17/9/09).

You do their cs down when you say they have "overlooked" the change! They know the rules of the game!!

Guys_Dad

Quentin wrote: »

Raising false hopes with this one.

!

I still think that OP should refer them to their current t&c first of all, with a reference to Ben the Man quoting where Ben confirmed his previous t&c were confusing and agreeing to rewite them, perhaps copyiny an email to Ben.

Wasn't that in a reply to you and if so, do you remember the link to help bathing-ape?

(Edit:- sorry this crossed with your last post)

Guys_Dad

mobilejunkie wrote: »

This is in fact pretty straightforward. The t&c in question (I naturally have a copy of those) all depend on the CONNECTION date - although Mobiles.co.uk have subsequently attempted to squirm out of that on at least two occassions publicly on here. Ignore when you ordered the phone (under THESE t&c - they are different now). It's all about when you were CONNECTED. If that was in March (your first bill will make it clear when the contract was connected unless it is T-Mobile perhaps - in which case you first need to get written confirmation from them as to the actual connection date).

Next - if you were connected in MARCH you cannot expect payment because YOU have stuffed up (as Oneaday said it is a very basic groundrule that anyone embarking on any cashback contract knows what is required BEFORE they do!) and should be grateful that you can claim subsequent cashbacks on the same contract. Naturally THAT depends on whether YOU understand when to claim and with what bill.

If you were CONNECTED in April then the dealer is WRONG and your claim using the OCTOBER bill is perfectly valid. IF they refuse to pay on receipt of THAT bill from you within 30 days of its date you can sue - and will win. Of course, you will need to prove everything - again, if you follow the groundrules that isn't a problem (otherwise it is).

Whilst this dealer is completely dishonest and the warnings I and others have been giving for some time have repeatedly been shown to be valid, I would not expect them to pay a claim where the claimant has stuffed up and broken the t&c - even though the dealer thinks they have the right to ignore them whenever it suits (in which case they can and should be held to account).

Told you he would have the full picture!

mobilejunkie

The re-writing wasn't in respect of the 60 days - but with regard to their "interpretation" of the connection date.