How exactly does the jobcentre 'better off' calculation work??

donnajunkie

dmg24 wrote: »

Have you been reading the Daily Mail again donnajunkie? :rolleyes:

No legislation has been passed which will require those claiming JSA to work for their benefit.

new deal already exists were you have to work for your benefit 4 days a week and spend 1 day in a centre. it is changing sometime this month to flexible new deal were it is supposedly going to be worse. the only details i know is that you get refered to it after 12 months instead of the current 18 and you are on it for 12 months instead of the current 13 weeks/26 weeks.

Angel89_2

mrcow wrote: »

How boring must it be to have absolutely zero aspirations.

Where do you think we all started out?

It's not just me, it's everyone. It's the way the world works.

My brother got his job two years ago this month. Working for £14k pa in a warehouse on a temporary contract over the Chirstmas period. He's just been promoted after being kept on for the past two years for working so hard and is on £25k. He's also now on the management trainee program and the next wage jump once he moves into management is £32k.

Of course that's how it works. Get a job. Be good at it. Move up and onwards.

It's called the real world.

Yes i do understand that every starts near the bottom of the ladder, and as they gain work experience they can start applying for higher level jobs.

And ive never actually said that people are bad or lower because they are on the min wage amount,
as we as a society need those jobs to be done.


I personally however cannot do any job at that low a pay level as i simply physcially couldn't afford to it,
as when i got my 1st paycheque id find that i had no money left to eat or pay my bills, and so wouldnt be able to go to work the next month as id have no money to pay to travel there with,
and no home to live and sleep in. :rolleyes:



Everyone has to start in training, however there are ALOT of different starting trainee levels at which you cna start from.

The people whgo start right at the bottom on min wage, yeah a few of them will be lucky and manage to get promoted,
but about 96% of them will barely ever manage to get much higher than that level.


Its the people who start at the jobs paying very low salaries, but still not as low as min wage, and in sectors where there is a clear career progression route,
that are the people who start lower but manage to work their way up.




Thats why the majority of the people who are working in macdonalds, cleaning streets, doing the bins... ect
Are all in the 30s n 40s.

Oldernotwiser

worrieddan wrote: »

It's all very well people saying start off at the bottom and work your way up etc but people have bills to pay and it's sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to live on such a low wage.Yesterday I went for a job as a Kicthen Porter I was offered 20 hours per week on the min wage for under 21's £4.83.This works out at around £8 more than jobseekers allowance after tax/travel etc...the job was terrible aswell.I am just not willing to do it.It sounds bad but i'm not willing to go and work in a horrible enviroment for a few quid more than on Jobseekers...ok they said it's a foot in the door etc but 6 months on 8 quid more than JSA working in a vile enviroment.no thanks.

You can't expect to be much better off if you're only working part time! You need to take another job as well to make your hours up.

Angel89_2

donnajunkie wrote: »

of course with new deal you will have to do jobs like this for your jsa.

Ive looked into the terms and conditions of that new deal thing,
but it says that you have to accept any ''approriate jobs that you are offered''.

I myself apply for 30 t 60 jobs per week, and so simply choose to ONLY apply for jobs paying over £7.50 per hour if they are near me,
or over £9per hour if they are in London and so would require the £21 per day trainfare.

I already told the jsa person this at the interview and they were fine with and and just gave me my agreement with the bullet points of it based on what i said.



Theres a big big dfference in what jobs are approriate for different people.

Someone who lives at home with their parents, has no council tax, no 4year rent contracts with no break clause till after 1year , doesnt have to pay food and bills,
and doesn't live in Surrey/London where living costs are over 3x what they are in other parts of the country....,

yes they will be able to take a minimum wage job paying just £800 per month, as that job would be appropriate for them and their living costs.


However if you have rent and council tax and bills to pay, need to eat everyday, need a few hundred quid every month just to pay the trainfare to work,
minimum wage jobs simply wont be appropriate.

As you physcially wouldnt be able to do the job as the salary you would get wouldnt pay enough for you to travel there, or to be able to eat all month. :rolleyes:

donnajunkie

Angel89 wrote: »

Ive looked into the terms and conditions of that new deal thing,
but it says that you have to accept any ''approriate jobs that you are offered''.

I myself apply for 30 t 60 jobs per week, and so simply choose to ONLY apply for jobs paying over £7.50 per hour if they are near me,
or over £9per hour if they are in London and so would require the £21 per day trainfare.

I already told the jsa person this at the interview and they were fine with and and just gave me my agreement with the bullet points of it based on what i said.



Theres a big big dfference in what jobs are approriate for different people.

Someone who lives at home with their parents, has no council tax, no 4year rent contracts with no break clause till after 1year , doesnt have to pay food and bills,
and doesn't live in Surrey/London where living costs are over 3x what they are in other parts of the country....,

yes they will be able to take a minimum wage job paying just £800 per month, as that job would be appropriate for them and their living costs.


However if you have rent and council tax and bills to pay, need to eat everyday, need a few hundred quid every month just to pay the trainfare to work,
minimum wage jobs simply wont be appropriate.

As you physcially wouldnt be able to do the job as the salary you would get wouldnt pay enough for you to travel there, or to be able to eat all month. :rolleyes:

i agree. what i found in my experience was if they can find you something you want to do they will do that but if they cant you have to pick something out of what they have and that is usually not much of a choice. basically the jobs nobody want to do. there was alot of retail and warehouse placement at the place i was at.
even if they find a placement in the work you want to do there is a feeling of being used. they do get some decent companies who treat people fairly but it is rare. when i say treat you fairly i mean they dont expect you to do the whole course before they offer you a job if at all. they give you a few weeks or at the most 2 months and then offer you a job. there is also some companies who openly admit they cant offer you a job but treat you ok by not being hard on you and letting you get away early alot because they understand what it must be like to have to work for your benefit.

shooter

worrieddan wrote: »

It's all very well people saying start off at the bottom and work your way up etc but people have bills to pay and it's sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to live on such a low wage.Yesterday I went for a job as a Kicthen Porter I was offered 20 hours per week on the min wage for under 21's £4.83.This works out at around £8 more than jobseekers allowance after tax/travel etc...the job was terrible aswell.I am just not willing to do it.It sounds bad but i'm not willing to go and work in a horrible enviroment for a few quid more than on Jobseekers...ok they said it's a foot in the door etc but 6 months on 8 quid more than JSA working in a vile enviroment.no thanks.

Sorry but at the wage/hours you quoted you would be earning £96 per week Thats more than £8 above JSA. If you were working as kitchem porter you would likely get something to eat whilst at work and Tap water is free.

Try being a 39yr old disabled full time student who is having to look for full time work ontop just to pay the bills and support my daughter As yet not cliaming any disability benefits.

You kids just have no work ethic at all I would do that job in a heartbeat if I was physically able and would be proud of myself for working and not sponging !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fridge3

shooter wrote: »

You kids just have no work ethic at all I would do that job in a heartbeat if I was physically able and would be proud of myself for working and not sponging !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are both talking about a job you can't or won't do - same thing really.

shooter wrote: »

As yet not cliaming any disability benefits.

AKA - waiting for the claim to go through.

shooter

Fridge3 wrote: »

You are both talking about a job you can't or won't do - same thing really. There isn't a job I won't do! There are lots of jobs out there that lots of people can't do! Thats the reality of life i the real world!!!!


AKA - waiting for the claim to go through. WRONG!!! Had forms for nearly 3 years but don't want to claim unless I cannot find a job!!!!![/QUOTE]

EXCUSE ME!!!

I have spent most of my adult life as a carer saving the NHS and the Government many thousands of pounds. I cared for my husband for 15yrs right up until he died at home in 2006.

I have fibromyalgia and Osteo arthrytis and would take any job that an employer would offer me but No one wants to employ someone who may not be fit enough to do the job every day. I live with constant excruciating pain but am trying to better myself by returning to study even at my age. I do not want to live on benefits for the rest of my life but Actually want to work.

Since my husband died I have only claimed what I was entitled to and the only benefits I have been on would be paid to anyone in my situation whether they were working or not.

I have applied to all the supermarkets within a 10 mile radius of my home and am willing to work nights and study days for the next few years if thats the only work I can get. But even some of them want a 5 year traceable work history!!!

So before you make sweeping coments read some of my previous posts!!!!!

Angel89_2

shooter wrote: »

Fridge3 wrote: »

I have spent most of my adult life as a carer saving the NHS and the Government many thousands of pounds.

And so what exactly......?? :rolleyes:


No-one forced you to do ANY of that at all.

It was 100% your choice whether or whether not to put in a claim for a benefit and then see if the doctors decided in your favour or not.


What exactly are you expecting to happen for you wasting your evening typing all that stuff on a random anonymous internet forum to a load of random people to read from behind their screens?? :rolleyes:



If you wanted to save the nhs loads of money that was your choice, welldone, your a good citizen, yay... :T

You wont get any sort of reward or appreciation for it though in the real world,
you will just have wasted years of your life suffering all because you wanted to try making a moral standpoint,
not realising the in this modern world no-one really cares about that kinda stuff anymore.



The government dont give a single toss about it, and even if they knew they wouldnt really care about it anyways tbh.
They wont treat you any better, use the money you may have saved for anything good except maybe to delay inlfation for a few seconds while they print out some more money to keep the nhs going,
and the country and society wont be any better of at all.


SO it was ust a very foolish pointless thing for you to do. lol

mrcow

Angel89 wrote: »

If you wanted to save the nhs loads of money that was your choice, welldone, your a good citizen, yay... :T

You wont get any sort of reward or appreciation for it though in the real world,
you will just have wasted years of your life suffering all because you wanted to try making a moral standpoint,
not realising the in this modern world no-one really cares about that kinda stuff anymore.
...........
SO it was ust a very foolish pointless thing for you to do. lol

Have some respect please. And be nice.

Have you any idea what the work of a carer even entails? Or why people do it? If all carers thought as the above, the country would be on it knees.

If you don't understand what you are talking about, then in the very least have the dignity to step away and say nothing.

You have a lot of growing up to do.