DFW running club part 4!! ALL ARE WELCOME!!

RichOneday_2

beer_tins wrote: »

I'd be interested to see the finishing time for the 2000th (to pick a random number) male runner for each of those years, to eliminate the effect more runners have on the data.

Needless to to say, the marathon is now far less of an elite event. You can take part in what is effectively your nation's national competition race in the marathon. Not many other sports can say the same. Maybe I'll write to the British Touring car championships and ask if I can take part in my 110 BHP Peugeot 307 :rotfl:

Its not a case of fields getting bigger so giving an impression that standards are falling (although that is obviously part of the story when talking about medians), they genuinely are!

It was no more an elite sport than it is now, everyone was eligible to enter.

But, unlike football where people compete at all levels and competitiveness (and hence standards) has increased, the opposite has happened in running.

I've not got access to the comparisons for New York, but to illustrate the point these are comparisons for London 1985 and London 2009:

Posn 1000: 1985 2:43:35, 2009 3:00:19 +16:44
Posn 2000: 1985 2:54:39, 2009 3:13:05 +18:26
Posn 3000: 1985 3:02:12, 2009 3:22:01 +19:49
Posn 4000: 1985 3:10:34, 2009 3:29:04 +18:30
Posn 5000: 1985 3:17:57, 2009 3:35:19 +17:22

So during a period when the world record has improved, in London the typical 2009 runner is the best part of 3 whole miles behind their equivalent 1985 counterpart. Interesting!

Simplycynical

Week 14/15 (Abingdon)
Mon 5/10 Rest Day
Tues 6/10 4 Miles Fartlek 00:38:54 (09:42/mile)
Wed 7/10 Rest Day
Thurs 8/10 4 Miles Hilly 00:42:07 (10:28/mile)
Fri 09/10 4 Miles 00:39:43 (09:54/mile)
Sat 10/10 Rest Day
Sun 11/10 10 Miles 01:44:17 (10:25/mile)

Week 15/15 (Abingdon)
Mon 12/10 Rest Day
Tues 13/10 2 Miles 00:19:14 (09:34/mile)
Wed 14/10 Rest Day
Thurs 15/10 2 Miles 00:19:36 (09:45/mile)

Only one more 2 miler for me before the big event. :D I've been a bit sniffly the last couple of days so it's fingers crossed that no other symptoms make an appearance.

My race number for the Halloween 5k came yesterday - it looks like a fun event with the route lit by glo lights. The skeleton tshirt and headtorch will come in handy after the event too.

krider has entered this race but hasn't posted recently ......... Are you lurking krider????????????

Well done on your run Hannah; you must be chuffed with the improvement in your pace :T

mascott514

RichOneday wrote: »

I've just had a look at that - it backs up the impression that Hal Higdon is in the 'Running Made Easy' camp to appeal to as many people as possible. His introduction even welcomes the precipitous fall in standards as something positive.:rolleyes:

Looking at that particular plan it is littered with too many tiddly little runs when the whole purpose is to train for a marathon. I would have nothing below 4 miles as an absolute minimum but preferably 10K and the Thursday midweek run should be in the region of 2/3rds of the distance of the current longest run.

There are just 2x 20mile runs (4-5 x 20-22 miles would be better) and typical training weeks of 30-35 miles (45-50 would be more realistic), both of which look a bit inadequate to get the job done in a reasonable degree of comfort.

To be honest you will get more constructive information using McMillan as a guide:
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

Put your target time into this and see the appropriate training paces. If they look achievable you're in business, if not play about with your target until they do!:D

You have plenty of time and have decent basic speed already so you can afford to build up to a decent workload volume in the time available.


I've got to say that the figures quoted by Higdon for the drop in standards are even more stark than I imagined:
The median male finishing times in the New York Marathon were:
1983 3:41:49
1993 4:14:27
2003 4:28:41

Or when the 1983 median runner was finishing the 2003 median runner still had 5 miles to go! I cant think of any other sport that has showed this sort of 'anti-progress':p

Sorry for not replying earlier, It was a bit rude of me to ask a question and then disappear!

It is strange that standards are dropping. Do you think its because we have less patience for the hard slog training.? Perhaps people sit at home and think "Iwould like to run that". They buy the gear and go out but after 2 months the training is boring so they cut back/stop and then with a month to go they think "blimey I better do some running"

Maybe people don't think its all that to run a marathon now that people do Ultra marathons and Iron man things...


Anyway. Back to me. I am going to explore the link you sent and see what I come up with.

I did a 10 miler today round a resevoir (bewl water) but it was HARD. Wanted to do the complete 12 miles but just felt knackered. Today will be a good day to look at my training plan whilst realism sinks in.
Still struggling to pace properly.....early days yet.

mascott514

just started going through the link to Mcmillan......fascinating. Still not sure on where to put myself in terms of target. I guess it doesnt matter greatly. According to my best 5k time I could get round VLM in 04.01!! According to my half time about 04.25. (probably more accurate) One thing I love is the pacing notes for different runs....how good is that for someone like me that ALWAYS sets off too fast.

RichOneday_2

mascott514 wrote: »

just started going through the link to Mcmillan......fascinating. Still not sure on where to put myself in terms of target. I guess it doesnt matter greatly. According to my best 5k time I could get round VLM in 04.01!! According to my half time about 04.25. (probably more accurate) One thing I love is the pacing notes for different runs....how good is that for someone like me that ALWAYS sets off too fast.

I like McMillan's approach. After all he is 'out there doing it' rather than just talking about it - he's around a 53-54 minute 10 miler at the moment.

Also, the paces given in the calculator tie in perfectly with the paces I used to do the different training sessions at when running PBs, so I'm happy that if people follow them the outcomes will be in the region of the target time.

I would say the predictions hold true apart from the marathon (until you've done a few). Allow an extra 15 minutes compared to the chart and you wont go far wrong!:D


Simply - Any finger nails left?;)

Simplycynical

I'm remarkably calm at the moment Rich; I think I was more nervous before the Netley 10k!! :rotfl:

I'm very excited and looking forward to the challenge - I know it's going to be all about getting my pacing right and not letting myself get carried away in the early stages. Ask me again on Saturday and you might get a different answer though

mascott514

Hey Simply I hope you are feeling ok...must be nice to be putting the feet up this week.:cool:

Thanks Rich for your advice AGAIN.......no doubt I'll be back for more....if you need advice on cycles yet me know or first aid...........no difficult ones!!:rotfl:

And...WELL DONE Hannah....you are really improving now, I think your sensible approach has paid dividends.:T

RichOneday_2

Simplycynical wrote: »

I'm remarkably calm at the moment Rich; I think I was more nervous before the Netley 10k!! :rotfl:

I'm very excited and looking forward to the challenge - I know it's going to be all about getting my pacing right and not letting myself get carried away in the early stages. Ask me again on Saturday and you might get a different answer though

Thats good to hear!

You'll probably get a wee bit nervous before the start (although Becky was cool as a cucumber before her first marathon in London) but as soon as the race gets going you'll soon get rid of any nerves!:D:D

tq16

Well done on new pb Hannah :-)

becky_rtw

Tq - you are this weekend as well as Simply - hope you're both looking forward to it

Been buried under work here so no running but am totally exhausted anyway so dont think I could even if I had time. Got a friend down on Sat so will try not to drink too much and go out for a nice one on Sunday afternoon/evening after Rich and Uk's race

Have fun all!