The Reality of Working for a Supermarket in 2009/Return to Victorian Britain

carolt

tesuhoha wrote: »

Also you seem to be saying that because he's an economic migrant then he shouldn't expect to be treated any better than this. Under European Law he has as much right to work here as any of us.

And you seem to be saying that as an economic migrant he somehow has a better right than everyone else here.

Unemployment affects everyone here - 'native' British or not. No-one has a 'right' to a job here - or had you not noticed? That's why we have 2.5 million unemployed - and growing.

I find it faintly amusing, and also slightly sad, that you seem blind to the irony that your friend objects to the fact he cannot get a job here and left his home country because he faced unemployment there - and yet is totally unaware that the arrival of millions of immigrants here seeking work (like him!) means there are fewer jobs to go round, for everyone, British and immigrant alike.

He appears to want, nay demand, his cake and to eat it. He wants free markets, so he can work where he chooses, and yet objects to the other side of that same free market - that employers can choose from a global pool of workers, and are no longer tied to long-term contracts.

The reason we no longer have the idealised work situation you naively seem to imagine still exists where people have jobs for life, with good pensions and benefits, is precisely because the movement of people around the globe, like your friend, have ensured that employers can undercut existing workers and obtain a workforce without the need for any of that.

Your friend is part of the problem.

Oh, the irony.

carolt

tesuhoha wrote: »

You are wrong; he is not my bf. Also I did not coin the phrase 200%. He met someone who was sacked from there because they were only working at 120%. That was the reason they gave him why he was sacked, so its Tesco's phrase not mine. His choices I have already mentioned in my previous post, unemployment in his home country. I don't know if they are breaking employment laws by sacking people for the least reason, but if they were employed by the company directly then they would all certainly be able to complain about unfair conditions/unfair dismissal. He is not complaining but is very fearful of losing the job because although he is athletic and fit he cannot keep up with the 200% that they say they expect. I have already said twice that they have sacked 1000+ people this year and the only ones that can keep up the gruelling regime are on steroids. It is me that thinks it unfair that someone who wants to work is being pushed impossibly hard and they stand to lose their job because of these impossible expectations. If that makes me emotional then yes I suppose I am because I dont believe in slavery. I think if you work hard then you should expect to be kept on at a job.

Why should you "expect" to be kept on in a job? You seem to be living in some sort of 1950's jobs-for-life timewarp.

It would, undeniably, be lovely if it was still like that - but it isn't, and hasn't been for decades. For those born and bred here, let alone for those who cannot reasonably be sen as having had long-term expectations from Britain.

You say your friend wold face unemployment back home - why isn't he railing at big employers in his home country- or better still, doing something about it? Why is it the responsibility of British employers to provide jobs to everyone who comes here believing the streets of London are paved with gold?

carolt

tesuhoha wrote: »

His working conditions are not much better than those of a third world country. I'm not talking about the ideal job; I'm talking about fair/humane working conditions. Those who complain about the culture of entitlement often have a soft life themselves and have not had to struggle.

He doesnt have to do the job no but his alternative is to return to a bankrupt country and be unemployed. He was recruited from his own country but got laid off. How can you blame him when the Government has been encouraging economic migrants to come here in droves? Its supposed to be "good for the economy" to encourage Eastern European workers isnt it?

I object to your dig at me - in some ways, yes I've had a soft life, and never cease to be thankful for it - I was lucky enough to be born in Britain, which, for all its faults, has one of the highest standards of living in the world.

On the other hand, I've worked damn hard all my life and have achieved what I have throgh bloody hard work and find your inference raher offensive.

My attitude comes from my father, who came here as an immigrant too - not an economic one, though, but a refugee who faced far worse things than mere unemployment in his native country. He spoke perfect English (he'd attended an American school) was highly educated - but as an enemy alien (this was wartime) he was not allowed to do any job that any native British person would want. So he had many, many years in appalling manual jobs that no-one else would do. But - and this is where my lack of sympathy comes from - despte having faced far, far worse things than your friend has ever had to face, I'm sure, despite narrowly escaping with his life - or rather because of it, I suppose - he has now (he's 87 now) never ceased for 1 minute to be grateful to this country for taling him in and allowing him the opportunity to live here freely and exist.

He later studied at night school whilst working full-time to become a solicitor - fantastically hard, with a young family. So those who want to achieve, and are prepared to put the hours in, can achieve. But he never, ever moaned. :mad:

Your friend needs to stop feeling hard done by and appreciate that he is a free man, and it's a free world. He is fortunate to be fit and healthy, and to be in a position to travel the world in search of work. He's not living through a major war, he's not facing persecution. He's not in bad health.

It was a beautiful, sunny day today.

Tell him to enjoy it.

StevieJ

carolt wrote: »

You say your friend wold face unemployment back home - why isn't he railing at big employers in his home country-?

The way Tesco are expanding overseas that is probably Tesco :eek:

StevieJ

tesuhoha wrote: »

You are probably right. However you cannot blame him; he is only doing what you or I would do if you were living in a bankrupt country and you could go abroad to get work to send back to your family. What about all the English people who used to go to Germany to work to earn large wages. Were they undermining the German workforce?

Blame the Government for they have brought all this about. Individual people are just doing the best they can to survive.

The people I see stacking shelves in Tesco don't appear to be putting in 120% I may be unfair though and they up their rate when I am not there BTW I think the British workers were needed for rebuilding Germany just the same as Irish navvies in the 18th -20th century in Britain (before they become rich).

tesuhoha

carolt wrote: »

And you seem to be saying that as an economic migrant he somehow has a better right than everyone else here.

Unemployment affects everyone here - 'native' British or not. No-one has a 'right' to a job here - or had you not noticed? That's why we have 2.5 million unemployed - and growing.

I find it faintly amusing, and also slightly sad, that you seem blind to the irony that your friend objects to the fact he cannot get a job here and left his home country because he faced unemployment there - and yet is totally unaware that the arrival of millions of immigrants here seeking work (like him!) means there are fewer jobs to go round, for everyone, British and immigrant alike.

He appears to want, nay demand, his cake and to eat it. He wants free markets, so he can work where he chooses, and yet objects to the other side of that same free market - that employers can choose from a global pool of workers, and are no longer tied to long-term contracts.

The reason we no longer have the idealised work situation you naively seem to imagine still exists where people have jobs for life, with good pensions and benefits, is precisely because the movement of people around the globe, like your friend, have ensured that employers can undercut existing workers and obtain a workforce without the need for any of that.

Your friend is part of the problem.

Oh, the irony.

Don't know where you got that idea from.

The problem is you are blaming the individual. The Government encouraged economic migrants to come here to work they said it was "good for the economy". Tesco cynically knows that they will work under harsh conditions. I don't hear you blaming them. They dont have to impose these conditions. They could offer fair work and the English would chase the jobs too. They make vast profits and could afford to be a fair employer. It would do the country a service but no, its all about profit, profit and greed. You may think that this is okay but its making the country like the third world. Its not the migrants that rule this country, its the Government and the big multinational companies. They are the ones who are undermining the workforce.

The young are the new poor. There is no manufacturing base and now no jobs for graduates so they are moving down the ladder pushing those at the bottom out. There is still a lot of money in this country but the cracks will start to show in a few years.

The Government has created this situaton. They have given all our money to the banks. We can't invest in jobs, there are going to be cutbacks to try to pay the debt back. Try telling the bankers that they are living in a 1950s job for life time warp. They have brought the country to its knees and are still getting their bonuses. You are blaming a poor migrant who is just trying to survive. You need to direct your gaze up a bit to discover the real culprits.

Better a 1950s timewarp than 1800s Dickensian Britain!

tesuhoha

StevieJ wrote: »

The people I see stacking shelves in Tesco don't appear to be putting in 120% I may be unfair though and they up their rate when I am not there BTW I think the British workers were needed for rebuilding Germany just the same as Irish navvies in the 18th -20th century in Britain (before they become rich).

He is not a shelf stacker but a picker in a warehouse. They have different conditions. The Government told the migrants they were needed here. Told them there was a labour shortage.

tesuhoha

carolt wrote: »

I object to your dig at me - in some ways, yes I've had a soft life, and never cease to be thankful for it - I was lucky enough to be born in Britain, which, for all its faults, has one of the highest standards of living in the world.

On the other hand, I've worked damn hard all my life and have achieved what I have throgh bloody hard work and find your inference raher offensive.

My attitude comes from my father, who came here as an immigrant too - not an economic one, though, but a refugee who faced far worse things than mere unemployment in his native country. He spoke perfect English (he'd attended an American school) was highly educated - but as an enemy alien (this was wartime) he was not allowed to do any job that any native British person would want. So he had many, many years in appalling manual jobs that no-one else would do. But - and this is where my lack of sympathy comes from - despte having faced far, far worse things than your friend has ever had to face, I'm sure, despite narrowly escaping with his life - or rather because of it, I suppose - he has now (he's 87 now) never ceased for 1 minute to be grateful to this country for taling him in and allowing him the opportunity to live here freely and exist.

He later studied at night school whilst working full-time to become a solicitor - fantastically hard, with a young family. So those who want to achieve, and are prepared to put the hours in, can achieve. But he never, ever moaned. :mad:

Your friend needs to stop feeling hard done by and appreciate that he is a free man, and it's a free world. He is fortunate to be fit and healthy, and to be in a position to travel the world in search of work. He's not living through a major war, he's not facing persecution. He's not in bad health.

It was a beautiful, sunny day today.

Tell him to enjoy it.

I apologise for offending you.

Ive said several times that he is not moaning but fearful for his job. However, no one seems to listen to me and are under the impression that he is complaining. He is not, he wants the job, wants to continue working there but is frightened that he is going to be sacked.

tesuhoha

And before you catch me out, he was not moaning when he told us about the toilet breaks etc, just rather amused at the pettiness.

ess0two

tesuhoha wrote: »

I apologise for offending you.

Ive said several times that he is not moaning but fearful for his job. However, no one seems to listen to me and are under the impression that he is complaining. He is not, he wants the job, wants to continue working there but is frightened that he is going to be sacked.

Sounds like he aint doing too bad,otherwise he'd have been sacked by now,given that the turnover numbers you quote add up.