The Reality of Working for a Supermarket in 2009/Return to Victorian Britain

carolt

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm afraid I don't really get the problem. We're in a recession, yes, there's unemployment, yes - but that's not Tesco's fault. At least they're providing jobs, albeit not great ones. They're not breaking the law. No-one is forced to work there or accept the conditions.

If the OP's friend doesn't like working there - and I agree, it sounds like a horrible place to work - then why doesn't he/she get a job elsewhere? In another country, if necessary - after all, if they are an economic migrant, it's not the responsibility of any country they turn up in to provide them with riches; if they can't find suitable work, then presumably they either need to re-skill or pick a better country to migrate to.

I couldn't find a suitable job to fit my limited availability and specific location, so I created one. I'm self-employed. I didn't just sit and moan that the only jobs I could get were rubbish or unsuitable or badly paid. I looked outside the box and did something about it.

I do agree that the treatment of agency workers is appalling - and it applies in many areas, including education. I've worked as an agency worker on many occasions. But I didn't moan about it - if I didn't like the work, no-one was making me do it. And all the more so for an economic migrant, who has a far greater potential area in which to work - I was tied to a limited part of England by family and other ties.

I have huge sympathy with those who have no choice but to live here and can't get a job. Less so with those who choose to come here to work without researching the employment situation first - and then complain they can't get a job. It's not the responsibility of Tesco's to employ everyone who needs work. They're not a charity.

I just don't get it.

nearlynew

And the reason wages are so poor generally and have not kept up with the cost of living is that high house prices took people's eye off the ball.

As long as there was rampant HPI everyone was happy to borrow to supplement their income.
High house prices made everyone feel richer when in fact they were getting poorer.

That is what happens when you believe that debt is wealth.

bendix

ninky wrote: »

i wouldn't refer to the masses. it's the same for the truffle eating elite.

Nicely avoided, ninky.

Let's try again. Do you seriously think that cultural tastes are shaped by some kind of system designed to keep things in order, and the various groups in their place, and if so, where do you fit into this Orwellian scenario?

Oh sure. It's an interesting theory, albeit based on a distinct them and us mentality, ironically. Them being the unenlightened ones, and us being the ones who have stumbled upon the great secret. I admit, it's an idea that titilated me when I was a student too, but then you grow out of it and realise the world is more complex that that. The 'explain it all in a neat theory' sociologists are intellectually weak - the world is far more complex than that. Or so Karl Popper told me, anyway.

:rotfl::rotfl:

tesuhoha

carolt wrote: »

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm afraid I don't really get the problem. We're in a recession, yes, there's unemployment, yes - but that's not Tesco's fault. At least they're providing jobs, albeit not great ones. They're not breaking the law. No-one is forced to work there or accept the conditions.

If the OP's friend doesn't like working there - and I agree, it sounds like a horrible place to work - then why doesn't he/she get a job elsewhere? In another country, if necessary - after all, if they are an economic migrant, it's not the responsibility of any country they turn up in to provide them with riches; if they can't find suitable work, then presumably they either need to re-skill or pick a better country to migrate to.

I couldn't find a suitable job to fit my limited availability and specific location, so I created one. I'm self-employed. I didn't just sit and moan that the only jobs I could get were rubbish or unsuitable or badly paid. I looked outside the box and did something about it.

I do agree that the treatment of agency workers is appalling - and it applies in many areas, including education. I've worked as an agency worker on many occasions. But I didn't moan about it - if I didn't like the work, no-one was making me do it. And all the more so for an economic migrant, who has a far greater potential area in which to work - I was tied to a limited part of England by family and other ties.

I have huge sympathy with those who have no choice but to live here and can't get a job. Less so with those who choose to come here to work without researching the employment situation first - and then complain they can't get a job. It's not the responsibility of Tesco's to employ everyone who needs work. They're not a charity.

I just don't get it.

They're not a charity no but its not charity thats being asked for so I dont get what you dont get. He wants to be treated fairly with decent conditions for a very hard day's work. At present he is under constant threat of getting the sack if he doesnt perform at 200%. As I have said in a previous post 1,000+ workers have been sacked from there this year alone because they didnt come up to standard. Surely there must be something wrong somewhere. The only people that have managed to keep up with this gruelling regime are the ones who are on steroids. They are all migrants. He is constantly looking for another job but there isnt much out there you know. When you are in a job you are cushioned from the reality of jobseeking in 2009 and its very grim. For every job there are hundreds and hundreds of other applicants. So its not an easy solution just to say look for another job. Also yes he could move away but he is tied by someone he has met who he doesnt want to lose, who cant move with him. They want to stay together or he would have gone back months ago.

So yes agency workers are treated badly but Tesco are not just treating them unreasonably they are expecting the near impossible. Because of the job market the way they are treated has got even worse and the companies know that they can do what they jolly well like because they have all the power. So i think Tesco is not going to become a charity anytime soon, in fact they are way off.

carolt

Tesco is breaking no laws - it's paying over minimum wage. If he doesn't like it, he shouldn't do it.

I agree it's hard to find alternative work now, but I don't agree it's Tesco's responsibility to give him his ideal job. They pay people as little as possible in order to make as large profits as possible. Arguably, it's not sound business sense - loyal, happy workers may also be more productive. Or they may not.

It may be immoral. But as they're not forcing him to do the job, I'm not really sure it is.

I dislike this culture of entitlement - the idea that we are owed a perfect life and perfect job, and someone else - Tesco's in this case - is at fault if we don't have it.

Why did he come to the UK unless he knew he would be able to get secure, well-paid employment here?

I think he needs to start taking responsibility for his own life and decisions - the system is rotten, I agree, but if he wants to improve his lot he needs to work within the system we have - or lobby to change it.

Not just whinge.

tesuhoha

StevieJ wrote: »

How do you know that exactly more likely wouldn't work under those t&c that your friend is helping to foster in this country and undermining the local workforce.

You are probably right. However you cannot blame him; he is only doing what you or I would do if you were living in a bankrupt country and you could go abroad to get work to send back to your family. What about all the English people who used to go to Germany to work to earn large wages. Were they undermining the German workforce?

Blame the Government for they have brought all this about. Individual people are just doing the best they can to survive.

bendix

tesuhoha wrote: »

They're not a charity no but its not charity thats being asked for so I dont get what you dont get. He wants to be treated fairly with decent conditions for a very hard day's work. At present he is under constant threat of getting the sack if he doesnt perform at 200%. As I have said in a previous post 1,000+ workers have been sacked from there this year alone because they didnt come up to standard. Surely there must be something wrong somewhere. The only people that have managed to keep up with this gruelling regime are the ones who are on steroids. They are all migrants. He is constantly looking for another job but there isnt much out there you know. When you are in a job you are cushioned from the reality of jobseeking in 2009 and its very grim. For every job there are hundreds and hundreds of other applicants. So its not an easy solution just to say look for another job. Also yes he could move away but he is tied by someone he has met who he doesnt want to lose, who cant move with him. They want to stay together or he would have gone back months ago.

So yes agency workers are treated badly but Tesco are not just treating them unreasonably they are expecting the near impossible. Because of the job market the way they are treated has got even worse and the companies know that they can do what they jolly well like because they have all the power. So i think Tesco is not going to become a charity anytime soon, in fact they are way off.

Being emotional doesnt help. Your argument is not strengthened by suggesting he has to work at 200%, and the emotional tone of your post suggests this guy is probably your bf.

But i digress.

I'm with carolt. There are only a couple of salient points here. Is he being paid minimum wage or not? If yes, then what's the issue? If no, take it up with the local authorities.

And secondly, are his employers breaking other employment laws? Yes or no? If yes, take it up with the authorities. If no, what's the issue?

Where does this guy come from? It's a bit bloody rich complaining about working conditions, if he is an economic migrant. He has a choice. Like it or lump it. What are the conditions like in his home country? And - by your own admission - he is sending money back home to his family, or at least trying to.

tesuhoha

carolt wrote: »

Tesco is breaking no laws - it's paying over minimum wage. If he doesn't like it, he shouldn't do it.

I agree it's hard to find alternative work now, but I don't agree it's Tesco's responsibility to give him his ideal job. They pay people as little as possible in order to make as large profits as possible. Arguably, it's not sound business sense - loyal, happy workers may also be more productive. Or they may not.

It may be immoral. But as they're not forcing him to do the job, I'm not really sure it is.

I dislike this culture of entitlement - the idea that we are owed a perfect life and perfect job, and someone else - Tesco's in this case - is at fault if we don't have it.

Why did he come to the UK unless he knew he would be able to get secure, well-paid employment here?

His working conditions are not much better than those of a third world country. I'm not talking about the ideal job; I'm talking about fair/humane working conditions. Those who complain about the culture of entitlement often have a soft life themselves and have not had to struggle.

He doesnt have to do the job no but his alternative is to return to a bankrupt country and be unemployed. He was recruited from his own country but got laid off. How can you blame him when the Government has been encouraging economic migrants to come here in droves? Its supposed to be "good for the economy" to encourage Eastern European workers isnt it?

tesuhoha

bendix wrote: »

Being emotional doesnt help. Your argument is not strengthened by suggesting he has to work at 200%, and the emotional tone of your post suggests this guy is probably your bf.

But i digress.

I'm with carolt. There are only a couple of salient points here. Is he being paid minimum wage or not? If yes, then what's the issue? If no, take it up with the local authorities.

And secondly, are his employers breaking other employment laws? Yes or no? If yes, take it up with the authorities. If no, what's the issue?

Where does this guy come from? It's a bit bloody rich complaining about working conditions, if he is an economic migrant. He has a choice. Like it or lump it. What are the conditions like in his home country? And - by your own admission - he is sending money back home to his family, or at least trying to.

You are wrong; he is not my bf. Also I did not coin the phrase 200%. He met someone who was sacked from there because they were only working at 120%. That was the reason they gave him why he was sacked, so its Tesco's phrase not mine. His choices I have already mentioned in my previous post, unemployment in his home country. I don't know if they are breaking employment laws by sacking people for the least reason, but if they were employed by the company directly then they would all certainly be able to complain about unfair conditions/unfair dismissal. He is not complaining but is very fearful of losing the job because although he is athletic and fit he cannot keep up with the 200% that they say they expect. I have already said twice that they have sacked 1000+ people this year and the only ones that can keep up the gruelling regime are on steroids. It is me that thinks it unfair that someone who wants to work is being pushed impossibly hard and they stand to lose their job because of these impossible expectations. If that makes me emotional then yes I suppose I am because I dont believe in slavery. I think if you work hard then you should expect to be kept on at a job.

ninky_2

bendix wrote: »

Nicely avoided, ninky.

Let's try again. Do you seriously think that cultural tastes are shaped by some kind of system designed to keep things in order, and the various groups in their place, and if so, where do you fit into this Orwellian scenario?


:rotfl::rotfl:

yes i think cultural tastes work in this way. i don't think there is some all seeing big brother that has designed it to be so but i certainly think taste preferences are valued as social indicators. i fit into this and don't think i'm a superior being that has escaped it. however awareness does allow you to question your tastes and where they come from (as does going out with someone from a completely different culture). i think they run very deep however and you don't ever really lose them. OH suggested putting plastic grapes up in the kitchen as a decorative feature. he equally cringes at the british middle class love of victorian fireplaces, especially when filled with candles of pine cones.

advertising uses such cultural nuances to add perceived value to their products via association etc.