The Reality of Working for a Supermarket in 2009/Return to Victorian Britain

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

the thing that makes cultural capital such an effective tool is it can mask inequalities as 'innate' - the gastronome with superior taste, the reviewer with superior ability to judge a good film etc. etc. of course it's all nonsense that merely justifies the class (and other dominant power) structures. the chav is no worse dressed than the couture show attendee.

But some ARE innate, sports prowess can be worked upon, but some will be conformationally better suited, a large framed girl of 5 feet will never be a model, some one tome deaf makes a poor musician and I'll certainly never be an artisit, and some people are more/less intelligent than others. (nature/nuture/both).

In equality in skill doesn't mean less value as a person, but it might mean less value to eonomic society.

ninky_2

lostinrates wrote: »

But some ARE innate, sports prowess can be worked upon, but some will be conformationally better suited, a large framed girl of 5 feet will never be a model, some one tome deaf makes a poor musician and I'll certainly never be an artisit, and some people are more/less intelligent than others. (nature/nuture/both).

In equality in skill doesn't mean less value as a person, but it might mean less value to eonomic society.

but the ability of these skills to be honed into a valued asset is totally mediated by the habitus. if beethoven were born an aboriginal for example.....or shakespeare in png....margot fontaine in post revolutionary iran etc etc. raw abilities are not valued.

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

but the ability of these skills to be honed into a valued asset is totally mediated by the habitus. if beethoven were born an aboriginal for example.....or shakespeare in png....margot fontaine in post revolutionary iran etc etc. raw abilities are not valued.

sure, and there they would earn less, bt be the same people.

abaxas

lostinrates wrote: »

But some ARE innate, sports prowess can be worked upon, but some will be conformationally better suited, a large framed girl of 5 feet will never be a model, some one tome deaf makes a poor musician and I'll certainly never be an artisit, and some people are more/less intelligent than others. (nature/nuture/both)

In equality in skill doesn't mean less value as a person, but it might mean less value to eonomic society.

But the role of our society is to remove 'underisable skills' from the pool and criminalised people who use ability to gain their existance.

Most people here have had their ability to eat, drink water and have shelter taken from them. They must pay others for this but are not allowed to fight back.

This is the definition of a capitalist society.

bendix

i8change wrote: »

And profit margins, so some employers, in the same market, treat/pay their workers better regardless of the supply and demand.

Utter nonsense.

Profit margins are a result of market forces, not a driver of it.

If a company was solely driven by profit margins, it would want to pay its employees zero salaries. Such a level would be unsustainable - the market would not let it work, because noone would accept zero salary in return for their labour. If they insisted on paying zero, or very low rates that not enough people will accept, people won't work for them and they go out of business, thus killing the profit margin.

It's economics 101.

There is ALWAYS a point where wages will be so low, people won't do it.

Ipso facto, it is market forces that dominate.

abaxas

bendix wrote: »

Utter nonsense.

Profit margins are a result of market forces, not a driver of it.

If a company was solely driven by profit margins, it would want to pay its employees zero salaries. Such a level would be unsustainable - the market would not let it work, because noone would accept zero salary in return for their labour. If they insisted on paying zero, or very low rates that not enough people will accept, people won't work for them and they go out of business, thus killing the profit margin.

It's economics 101.

There is ALWAYS a point where wages will be so low, people won't do it.

Ipso facto, it is market forces that dominate.

But employment law is at odds with market forces and is protectionism of the worst kind.

bendix

ninky wrote: »

well it's clear that in the sort of 'advanced' capitalist society we live in much demand is manufactured by those with more capital in order to maintain and improve on their position.

?

I thought these Ralph Miliband State in Capitalist Society 'everything is manufactured to keep the status quo for the chosen few type arguments died out in the 1960s.

Obviously not.

You have a very low opinion of the masses, if you're suggesting their tastes are not really their own, but are imposed by some kind of cultural conspiracy. By your argument, while they may think they like Hello Magazine and Strictly Come Dancing because they enjoy it, in fact it's part of some kind of masterplan to keep them in their places.

Why is it always the left-wing liberals who despise and think so lowly of those they profess to champion?

bendix

abaxas wrote: »

But employment law is at odds with market forces and is protectionism of the worst kind.

Can't argue with that.

marty1888

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

well if he doesn't like it.......

he should sign on..........?

ninky_2

bendix wrote: »

I thought these Ralph Miliband State in Capitalist Society 'everything is manufactured to keep the status quo for the chosen few type arguments died out in the 1960s.

Obviously not.

You have a very low opinion of the masses, if you're suggesting their tastes are not really their own, but are imposed by some kind of cultural conspiracy. By your argument, while they may think they like Hello Magazine and Strictly Come Dancing because they enjoy it, in fact it's part of some kind of masterplan to keep them in their places.

Why is it always the left-wing liberals who despise and think so lowly of those they profess to champion?

i wouldn't refer to the masses. it's the same for the truffle eating elite.

if we are really going to believe in this survival of the fittest nonsense and argue against decent wages for all then why not get rid of property laws, let everyone set up home on whatever land they want and leave them to fight it out with their neighbours? i'm up for it!