The Reality of Working for a Supermarket in 2009/Return to Victorian Britain

tesuhoha

Afriend wrote: »

If people like your friend didn't work for these companies, they would have to offer staff better working conditions. If anything, the influx of cheap foreign labour, willing to work in a poor environment, has helped to erode working conditions for unskilled people/jobs.

Why did you put the words 'your friend' in italics?

As I keep saying, the government have encouraged the influx of cheap foreign labour but everyone keeps blaming the people who are just trying to better themselves. At first everyone seemed to think it was great but now its having an effect on middle class jobs its not half so amusing.

dalkey1

No, I have no qualms with immigration but it is akimbo to my inviting somebody to supper at my house and then, they have the audacity to moan about the fare on offer. If MSE allowed photos as part of our profile, you would instantaneously know I am not what you accuse me of ie a racist. This is not about race but about perception, you yourself have the chutzpa to compare the UK today to dickensian times (your opening) I give it to you, the UK is a far far better place now, than then, and most other parts of Europe. As a student, I picked grapes in the depths of France & it was back breaking, do I think the French are at fault for that? (no) do I resent that bottle of St. Emillion I open? (No, definitely not) My point is, as an apparent racist, hang 'em high type, the UK is here, has faults (many) but sheesh, even you must realise it is in the top ten of accommodating all comers & all persuasions (but not moaners) and for that we should be thankful, not bemoan it to a third world level! As an aside, I wish you only good luck in your forthcoming assessment & my fingers are crossed your job will be OK.

Afriend_2

tesuhoha wrote: »

As I keep saying, the government have encouraged the influx of cheap foreign labour but everyone keeps blaming the people who are just trying to better themselves. At first everyone seemed to think it was great but now its having an effect on middle class jobs its not half so amusing.

Everyone includes you old chap.

It is easy to put little generic stories together apportioning blame elsewhere without solution. You'll like this one.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was
asked to do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that
Everybody wouldn't do it. Consequently, it wound up that Nobody told
Anybody, so Everybody blamed Somebody.

tesuhoha

dalkey1 wrote: »

No, I have no qualms with immigration but it is akimbo to my inviting somebody to supper at my house and then, they have the audacity to moan about the fare on offer. If MSE allowed photos as part of our profile, you would instantaneously know I am not what you accuse me of ie a racist. This is not about race but about perception, you yourself have the chutzpa to compare the UK today to dickensian times (your opening) I give it to you, the UK is a far far better place now, than then, and most other parts of Europe. As a student, I picked grapes in the depths of France & it was back breaking, do I think the French are at fault for that? (no) do I resent that bottle of St. Emillion I open? (No, definitely not) My point is, as an apparent racist, hang 'em high type, the UK is here, has faults (many) but sheesh, even you must realise it is in the top ten of accommodating all comers & all persuasions (but not moaners) and for that we should be thankful, not bemoan it to a third world level! As an aside, I wish you only good luck in your forthcoming assessment & my fingers are crossed your job will be OK.

I have also picked grapes, in Switzerland. I know that we accomodate all comers but it is I, not he that has complained about his working conditions. He mentioned it to us but with no intention of it being passed on and discussed like this. He does not know that this site exists. So I do not think he is moaning. He just gave a smile when he told us about things.

It worries me the way the country is going and I worry about the lack of jobs for young people. It concerns me that we have no manufacturing base. I dont see how we can ever create enough jobs to meet demand and therefore working conditions can only deteriorate. For people starting out in life who want the same things as you and I, this is a bleak situation. Once there was a time when anyone could save a deposit and be able to buy a house. Not so anymore. Why should these things only be possible for the select few? These select few are not the ones who work the hardest; they are just the richest through inheritance or luck or through the privilege of education. Even graduates now cannot get jobs. It makes me wonder where its all going to end.

lostinrates

dalkey1 wrote: »

If MSE allowed photos as part of our profile.

some people do post photos....:)

tesuhoha

Afriend wrote: »

If people like your friend didn't work for these companies, they would have to offer staff better working conditions. If anything, the influx of cheap foreign labour, willing to work in a poor environment, has helped to erode working conditions for unskilled people/jobs.

Seems you are also pointing the finger of blame.

tesuhoha

Afriend wrote: »

It's always Afriends fault.

I didnt intend to say this but - how did you manage that?

tesuhoha

oh i see, i quoted yep and then you changed it. I think I'll give up,

i8change

Originally Posted by i8change
And profit margins, so some employers, in the same market, treat/pay their workers better regardless of the supply and demand.

Originally Posted by bendix

Utter nonsense.

Profit margins are a result of market forces, not a driver of it.

If a company was solely driven by profit margins, it would want to pay its employees zero salaries. Such a level would be unsustainable - the market would not let it work, because noone would accept zero salary in return for their labour. If they insisted on paying zero, or very low rates that not enough people will accept, people won't work for them and they go out of business, thus killing the profit margin.

Market forces do not set pay rates. Workers in John Lewis electrical department get better pay and conditions than workers in Currys because John Lewis choose to treat their workers better, regardless of operating in the same market.
They may be more efficient and/or be prepared to take a lower profit due to the increased wage costs, regardless I admire their ethos.
I certainly would n't accept market forces as an excuse for highly profitable Tesco treating staff so badly! In every market there can be good and bad employers. With regards to the bad ones, some prefer to take their custom elsewhere (especially where prices are similar) and some don't care or need to use the cheapest. The concept is easy to understand so I won't elaborate any again.

dalkey1

tesuhoha wrote: »

I have also picked grapes, in Switzerland. I know that we accomodate all comers but it is I, not he that has complained about his working conditions. He mentioned it to us but with no intention of it being passed on and discussed like this. He does not know that this site exists. So I do not think he is moaning. He just gave a smile when he told us about things.

It worries me the way the country is going and I worry about the lack of jobs for young people. It concerns me that we have no manufacturing base. I dont see how we can ever create enough jobs to meet demand and therefore working conditions can only deteriorate. For people starting out in life who want the same things as you and I, this is a bleak situation. Once there was a time when anyone could save a deposit and be able to buy a house. Not so anymore. Why should these things only be possible for the select few? These select few are not the ones who work the hardest; they are just the richest through inheritance or luck or through the privilege of education. Even graduates now cannot get jobs. It makes me wonder where its all going to end.

I do honestly appreciate where you are coming from but there was never a time when "all" could save a deposit for a house. I think, an overlook of this country was thatcher (whether right or wrong) letting council houses go into the system cheaply / thereby national assets sold on the cheap but depleting council stock for the needy & I have to say, council housing is / should be a must of any advanced society. I stray, I remember a "joke" growing up about "work hard, you will be rich! ergo, Why aren't all road sweepers rich?" I can say, hand on heart, I don't know what is around the corner, but I can equally say, do not under estimate the UK (isn't it awful how the bnp and ukip make that sound bad?) & it's ability to bounce back, your friend, whilst being unhappy in his job, I am sure he is still much better of here? Lost In Rates, I don't know about piccies, I'm not even allowed to post links as a new user (8 months)