Sun Screens

quidsinquentin

Cheers for that - oooooh the split sausage part! Brings back bad memories.....

Ted_Hutchinson

saver6 wrote:

I'm so glad someone started a thread such as this! It's about time there was shared info on the realities of sun skin care.

I actually grew up as a kid in Australia, and believe me - no Australian anywhere on this board will be ignorant about how to have fun in the sun without endangering their health!

Read the following links and you will see there is still a lot of misinformation being issued by those who should know better about the need for reasonable and regular exposure to sunshine without getting sunburnt.
Are we still dying for a tan? and SUNLIGHT ROBBERY:
Top 10 Vitamin D Myths

Adopting the policy and practice appropriate and reasonable at latitude <33 is dangerously misguided for those who live at latitude >53degrees.

saver6

Ted-Hutchinson - You'll have to forgive my lack of latitude knowledge! I don't know which is which, but I can't quite tell whether you are for exposure to the sun or against, for whatever reason...?

Sure, sun exposure is good for you - in moderation. ALthough I didn't read the full articles (yet!) I can see the point they're trying to make, but I do feel that some people (ie. the general public) are using the Vitamin D argument to justify not using sunscreen at all, and these "Experts" should not be encouraging one over the other.

At the end of the day though, everyone has different skin tolerance and I guess it all depends if you'd rather stay pale and safe or tanned and leathery/cancerous.

As for me, I actually quite like having a light tan. However I find that if I err on the side of caution and slather in sunscreen, my skin type will eventually tan anyway, and the tan will last much longer as well. But I never just sunbathe for the purpose of getting a tan. There's much more interesting things to do in the summer than sit in the sun getting hot and bothered by doing nothing.

quidsinquentin

Does anyone know of a site where sunscreens are tested by a reputable organisation? and results available? Or any recent reports on sunscreens?

Ted_Hutchinson

saver6 wrote:

I do feel that some people (ie. the general public) are using the Vitamin D argument to justify not using sunscreen at all, and these "Experts" should not be encouraging one over the other.

The extrapolation of what may be appropriate messages in one country toanother has been criticised by others. For example Diffey wrote:
‘So while regular sunscreen application can prevent the development of cutaneous dysplasias in sunny countries like Australia without compromising vitamin D levels, daily use of skin products containing UV filters in the UK, which is not known for its sunny climate, is unnecessary and may be potentially harmful’.


The SunSmart campaign suggests that sunscreen should be applied 15-30 minutes before going outside. This advice is completely unsuited to the British climate. More appropriate advice for the British Isles would be to expose the body to full sun (so long as there is no baking or burning) for up to half an hour before applying any suncream. In the British Isles the sun often comes and goes behind fast moving clouds and under these circumstances a person may need to be fully exposed to the sun without sunscreen for an hour or more to get optimum vitamin D synthesis.

Perhaps the above quotes will give you an idea of where I lie (preferably naked in the summerhousehttp://img.moneysavingexpert.com/icons/icon12.gif) But remeber the above advice is for WHITE skinned people. Brown or black skins need far more exposure to sunshine for vitamin d synthesis.

Edit:I don't want to take over this thread with a debate in vitamin d3 so am reply to the above post in this one.
This paper sets out the science supporting raising both the Recommended daily amount of vitamin d3 and the suggested Toxic Upper Limit.
Critique of the Considerations for Establishing Tolerable Upper Intake Levels for Vitamin D
Until "OFFICIALLY" the suggested science based amounts are "OFFICIALLY" in place (it may take years to do this in the UK) your UK doctor will be obliged to "Officially" stick to "OFFICIAL" guidance even though there is no actual science to support that opinion. As melanoma survivors are more likely to have repeat melamomas if they shun the sun and melanoma survivors who continue to sunbathe have fewer repeat melanomas I suspect I will keep sunbathing. As far as UK residents are concerned there are 25 vitd3 insufficiency related cancer deaths to each melanoma death not to mention MS, diabetes etc, so anyone failing to use sunscreen AND getting a melanoma would be unlucky but would have the consolation of knowing there were 20+ cancers which he'd avoided but the message should be DON'T EVER GET SUNBURNT but get the sun on your skin as regularly as possible for a short time each day. The fact that there are probably only 30 days a year in the UK when sunscreen is really necessary for short exposures doesn't in any way imply it's safe not using sunscreen when abroad in areas nearer the Equator. The higher your vitamin d level the less likely you are to burn but using your common sense should enable you to have the best of both worlds.

saver6

OK fair enough - I see that perhaps I should have read the articles properly to garner a better idea of the position of the authors though!:rolleyes:

It is perfectly true that the preventative measures against sun damage should be more extreme in countries like Australia and less so in places like the UK, however what about for those like me who grew up in Australia, but now live in the UK? My GP has told me that in general, I should be staying out of the sun and covering up at all times in the UK, as I am in a higher-risk category simply because I did grow up in a "dangerous" climate. Am I at risk of vitamin D deficiency? :eek: If that's the case, I can't win and eventually I will die as a result of one or the other, so I must choose....:o

With the whole 1/2 hour thing in the sun before putting cream on - would you trust your growing teenager to actually do that? How many people would simply forget to put any cream on at all? I'm also concerned because so many people (including my OH to my dismay) believe that because it's ok for them to go longer in the UK without sunscreen, it's ok when they go on foreign hols as well.

quidsquinten - sorry we've gone slightly into friendly debate here, but regarding your query re. a website listing all those things - I think I saw one mentioned earlier on this thread (after the merge!).

lizsil

To Bushranger 31, sunbeds are awful.

The sun's rays are a mix of UVA and UVB. Think A for ageing and B for burning - both can cause sun damage and skin cancer. Sunbeds use only UVA and these rays penetrate a lot deeper into the skin causing a lot more damage. If you've ever used a sunbed, you tend to get a tight, tingling sensation which just feels like it's up to no good. I'd say stay away. If you're that fair, don't bother trying to tan from the sun, you'll just end up burnt and miserable. Instead go for a hat, a sunblock (30-50SPF with 4 or 5 UVA stars - this was a system started by Boots and any products sold in their stores have to show the UVA rating) and some fake tan. Everyone's doing body lotions with just a bit of fake tan in now, they're a doddle to use and are perfect for us super-fairs. Johnson's has Holiday Skin Body Lotion but there are lots of others.

quidsinquentin

A couple of the best things I've found for the beach/sun are a wetsuit and a beach tent. I bought a shorty wetsuit a couple of years ago for swimming in the sea, and I've never burnt seriously yet. I have to make sure that my head is well oiled with sun screen, but the suit does the rest. My whole family use them now. They're great for the sea too, as you float quite well in them (caution - they're not a floatation device). we also use a beach tent that protects against uv rays - or something. price wasn't bad either. for the first time in my life I've been able to stay on a beach for the whole day!

Savvy_Sue

saver6 wrote:

With the whole 1/2 hour thing in the sun before putting cream on - would you trust your growing teenager to actually do that?

No. :rotfl: But then I wouldn't trust any teen to do anything sensible most of the time.

And although I asked the school about whether they'd be able to apply sunscreen before outdoor PE and was told yes of course they would, they always denied they'd got time to do so. (This is in the days before I knew about P20 or ProSport - but I can't see I'd have been able to get that on them before school either!)

Seriously, I still carry sunwipes round with me (like babywipes, but impregnated with sunscreen) on our rare family days out, then if I think they need it, I pass them a wipe and watch them smear faces, necks and arms (they don't usually bare any other bits!) They will do that, and it's a lot less fiddly than using lotion when you're on the move. Pricey, but I look out for them on BOGOF, often in the baby section!

If they're not with me, I'm quite certain they don't do anything. I make sure they take a hat and suncream, can't do more than that apart from remind them regularly that they ARE at risk, especially the middle one who was once allowed to burn VERY badly (and not under my supervision!) I also give them all the lecture about inspecting their moles, and grab any chance I can to do so for middle son. ("Yeah, I know", sigh from him)

Ted, I'm trying to get out in the sun, but it still makes me feel ill if I get too hot, so I'm a bit stuffed!

Ted_Hutchinson

Savvy_Sue wrote:

Ted, I'm trying to get out in the sun, but it still makes me feel ill if I get too hot, so I'm a bit stuffed!

Try going out earlier/later in the day to get your cholecalciferol for free.
This calculator tells me, where I live,that from 6.34am to 17.49pm a total of 11.15hrs it's possible on a cloudless day to synthesise cholecalciferol vitamin d3 if you expose your skin directly to sunlight.
The numbers after the hr are DECIMAL points not MINUTES but good enough to give you an idea.

If your stuck on your lat and lon then select London it won't make much difference unless you live in Scotland. Google Earth is great for finding lat/long.