Idle young should be entitled to nothing

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

sb13579 wrote: »

hey i feel the same about people living off the state. but i dont blame them. and yes i have a job. the people i blame is the goverment. and i blame us for being quiet little mice letting the government do this! i blame people who dont go on strike for better conditions. we need to start growing some balls and having a say in everything. the people who dont vote because they feel it wont count are purely and simply cowards. we need a general election and the whole country to vote. easy as that

I have to agree with you.
We've never claimed a penny in benefits,my husbands been in the same job for nearly 40 years without a days sick pay but I don't blame the people who claim benefits either for the reasons you give.
We've also brought up three children and help with our grand-children financially without governement help.
We'll be retiring in seven years and my husband has worked hard to fund that retirement so we'll probably be paying for everything ourselves again but I don't begrudge the pensioners who were'nt lucky enough to be in the position to have a guaranteed pension and unable to save.
The one thing I find worries me in your post is the general election bit.
It's assumed we'll get a Tory government.
I'm a life long Tory voter and I don't feel I have any confidence in them anymore.
New labour and the Conservatives have very little between them and to be honest they may be offering the earth while in opposition but they won't be making much difference if they get in.
They all make promises,that's how we're in the position we're in now.
For the first time in my life the Conservatives won't get my vote.

lostinrates

re Portillo: I agree with an awful lot of what he says.

re work shy/getting nothing, something that always amazes me is we don't seem to appreciate how much we get in this country that is free (at point of use). Not just healthcare, but, for example, education. Eduction (however we feel about the system atm) is expensive to provide and unappreciated by many who get it ''for free'' and is so very, very valuable.

phil1873football

I don't know who to vote for to be honest. I feel Labour has been blamed for EVERYTHING that's caused this recession, which I feel is unfair. Yes, they've f**ked up on a few issues (one of them being the benefit/scrouging system), but I think everyone has played their part in causing this terrible situation we are in.

Labour has spent spent spent its way through this recession (I don't agree or disagree to this policy), but I feel we are certainly in a better situation that we were 6months ago, so its seems to be working very slowly. What worries me is come this General Election next year, Labour simply won't get in due to the fact of the British 'blame culture' where we must find someone else to blame rather than look in the mirror. Which means, its a certainty that the Tories will get in, and they have stated that all spending will cease...this worries me as all the work that Labour and the public have done to dig ourselves out this situation will have been a waste of time and set us back to the start again.

This will anger me...I also think this could lead to protests in the street next summer.

With regards the OP, yes, there are too many scroungers out there who think they are beyond some of the jobs out there. I am sure there are loads of jobs out there that come across as dead end jobs...but some people in this society think they are above this and would rather sit at home taking MY money until something they THINK they'll like comes along, a job is a job...get one and start becoming a decent british citizen.

Davesnave

I don't think it is beyond the wit of potential governments to devise a system that would quickly sort the wheat from the chaff with regard to benefits, but it is questionable whether the rest of us would all accept the consequences of doing this.

The money which many now see as rightfully theirs, without labour, is like a high dependency drug, and the consequences of quick withdrawal would be similar. Like the weak-willed who cannot give up their booze, fags or other personal poison, even when their very existence depends on it, there is a tranche of our society that is devoid of skills, lives in chaos, and is therefore unable to cope with the demands of even the simplest job. The question also arises, who would employ these fe ckless individuals? Further, will we really stop their benefits and assume responsibility for their kids? I think not.

We have created the bloated benefits culture over the last 50 years, so we probably face a fairly protracted task in trimming its worst aspects. As lostinrates says, the rot begins in school, where lack of respect both for learning and for others is often tolerated rather than sufficiently challenged, so it should be there that a line is drawn in the sand. It would be a great step forward, for example, if parents could be made genuinely responsible for ensuring that their children arrive there on time and in a fit state to be educated. That many don't is tantamount to child abuse, but a blind eye is often turned. The problem is so vast and the resources limited. Instead, we have 'breakfast clubs.':rolleyes:

I wonder too how employed, often wealthy parents, would react to a curtailment of their power and influence in this regard. Experience suggests, in recent years at least, they have also produced a good number of disrespectful children who think that the world owes them much more than they contribute. Who's going to tell them that? Believe me, I've tried, and it causes more problems than it's worth!

Various sectors of society hide behind the human shield of their kids. The unemployed/able use them as a cash cow and the middle classes want them to do well, but on their terms.

Too much take and not enough give, I fear. We have fallen over ourselves to ensure fairness and rights for all, but most of us, except the very young, know that life is never fair. Rights should always come with responsibilities as part of the package, not as some optional extra.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

I have to agree with you Davesnave regard the child issue.
Children have always been a wonderful source for emotional blackmail and nowadays no one dare say or do anything.
That's why a lot of people know they're safe as long as they have children.
And no government will ever do anything to rock the boat.
Does anyone realy believe a change of government would dare.
They never have before.

phil1873football

It's funny how everyone comes on these forums and speaks their mind with regards how the country is run and how it should change and everyone agrees with each other (mostly)...yet NO-ONE seems to want to take action and make these changes incase they're persocuted by the PC or Human Rights Brigade.

If there enough of us (which clearly they're are) that feel so strongly about how things are done wrong, then maybe its time we all speak up....I think as soon as someone publicly states there feelings, then there will be a huge support to follow...but it takes that 1 single STRONG individual to 'rock the boat' but the way this country is going, no-one wants to incase they are accused of all sorts.

Old_Slaphead

Bit like the right to die really.

Most people want the option but nothing will get done in case a few vulnerable individuals may get exploited - which is politically unacceptable.

It's a case of MPs pandering to minority interests (which could be obviated with the right safeguards) rather than the will of the majority. Sod democracy, petty party politics rules ok.

Back to thread subject - bring discipline back and make parents responsible for their chiildren.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

phil1873football wrote: »

It's funny how everyone comes on these forums and speaks their mind with regards how the country is run and how it should change and everyone agrees with each other (mostly)...yet NO-ONE seems to want to take action and make these changes incase they're persocuted by the PC or Human Rights Brigade.

If there enough of us (which clearly they're are) that feel so strongly about how things are done wrong, then maybe its time we all speak up....I think as soon as someone publicly states there feelings, then there will be a huge support to follow...but it takes that 1 single STRONG individual to 'rock the boat' but the way this country is going, no-one wants to incase they are accused of all sorts.

It does'nt matter how much people group together and show their true colours it would'nt influence a government to act.
Political parties promise you the earth,they're good at writing speeches and that's where it stops.
How do you think this lot got in.
Once elected they go they're own way though.
We'd have to have an all out revolution to get what the majority wanted and then were would we end up.

Pennywise

phil1873football wrote: »

It's funny how everyone comes on these forums and speaks their mind with regards how the country is run and how it should change and everyone agrees with each other (mostly)...yet NO-ONE seems to want to take action and make these changes incase they're persocuted by the PC or Human Rights Brigade.

If there enough of us (which clearly they're are) that feel so strongly about how things are done wrong, then maybe its time we all speak up....I think as soon as someone publicly states there feelings, then there will be a huge support to follow...but it takes that 1 single STRONG individual to 'rock the boat' but the way this country is going, no-one wants to incase they are accused of all sorts.

This thread shows how people who "stand up" are treated on these boards - ridicule and smear campaigns - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1920093

SingleSue

Gaining part time work is being absolutely frustrating for my eldest son. He has had his name down for a paper round since age 11 (the lists here are miles long, a neighbour finally got a paper round offered at age 18 and he put his name down when he was 10!), he started going into shops etc when he was 13 only to be told to come back at 14, went back at 14 and told to come back at 15, went back at 15 only to be told come back when you are 16....government rules apparently.

He is 16 in just less than a month and thought he would step it up and get applications in and now a few have started to tell him to come back at 17!

I should state here that he is still in compulsory full time education and is planning on staying into 6th form and then Uni.

What are we teaching our children if they are not able to get part time employment if the minimum age for working keeps increasing? How are they going to be able to get that working ethic if the doors are closed to them? Where is the preparation for working as adults, the learning to budget their money when the chance to learn that with little part time jobs whilst still in compulsory school has gone?

I am finding it so hard to understand why our youngsters are being treated like children for longer...even into adulthood, when are they going to be learning to be independent when they are still tied to the apron strings.

I got my first part time job at age 11, by my sons age, I had 5 part time jobs and was buying all my own clothes, school uniform, paying my part for holidays etc....it also made me more of an adult at 18 than some of my peers who had everything paid for them by their parents and had never had a part time job at all.

I'm not advocating children of any age working but for a sensible minimum age ..some of these kids won't even have had a part time job when they leave school if they don't go into 6th form which gives them little or no chance in being able to gain full time work.