Kitchen worktop advice please

Alan_M_2

mwilletts wrote: »

Are you thinking about Alan M?

He's a wholesaler though, so wont supply to retail...

Yup that's me.

I supply the people that do the cutting and installation, I'm happy to supply anyone who wishes to buy from me, but what we don't do is get involved in the installation or production side.

We are based at Gatwick, we have a lot of trade customers so I'm happy to recommend local installers to people in our area.

We supply a variety of businesses from man and van fitting teams to companies that have full production facilities and buy two or three cases a week from us.....often the nature of the fitting company is governed by the type of installation required.

A simply fit with overmount hobs and sink doesn't require much fabrication at all and a local on site fitting team would be ideal, however if you want any detailed polishing or undermount sink/drainer grooves then you need a stonemason.

Fire away I'm happy to answer most general questions.

Alan_M_2

mwilletts wrote: »

misskool - man-made worktops are more resistant to staining than natural stone is, as natural stone is porus, man-made isn't. That's the only thing they are more resistant to. Of course, Silestone isn't pros either, as it is 96% granite and 4% resin and is (I feel) by far the best worktop material. But of course this all depends on what price you can got it for...

Have a shop around, I know there are a couple of decent solid surface suppliers on the net..

Silestone is quartz composite and is almost identical to Ceaserstone, Cimstone, Compac and all the other quartz tops, mainly because they are all produced on one machine made by the same manufacturer, Breton.

The only difference between any of these tops is colours (and Silestone include Microban)..the rest is sales nonsense.

It is a genuine alternative to granite in so much as it provides a variety of colours that would never be available as natural granites. However if you want black then in all honesty you can't beat granite.

Honed and dull tops are a right nuisance, they show every mark and are simply a nightmare to live with.

As a country we have an obsession with these items looking perfect and looking perfect for 20 years.....these are worktops, they are designed to be used and to prepare food on....they wear, they scratch, they age...that's how it is no matter what surface is chosen.

If it is important to you that your top doesn't show damage or wear do not buy black of any description or type (including laminates or quartz or resins etc) buy a natural colour with variation that disguises marks and scratches. Certainly do not buy a honed finish, that shows grease marks on top of the water marks and scratches.

Granite varies quite a lot in density, the more dense the harder wearing the product is (and less porous). As a very general rule of thumb, the darker the stone the more dense it is. That is why black granite is so popular, it is extremely hard wearing.

The down side of this is, (as owners of black cars will know) it shows every mark and scratch.

There are some beautiful alternatives to black that are a lot easier to live with and often less expensive.

Steel Grey is a colour I've got arriving later this month, it looks stunning and I think it will increase in popularity as people get fed up with the blacks. It's still dark but had a natural grain that disguises a lot of the grease and watermarks of day to day living.

I suppose what I'm getting at is, buy something that suits your requirements rather than trying to make your requirements suit a honed black just because you want the colour.

If you must have black, you must accept it is going to require care an maintainance to keep it looking the way it does on the day of installation.

Lawrence_Crowther

Alan M,
Great post. I did a lot of research befor choosing to have Quartz worktops and discovered that there is little difference other than the colours offered from different brands. What did help was that granite tops don't come with a guarantee and are porous and Quartz tops have 10 years for any defects that might show up.
Most are manufactured the same way like the well known brands such as Silestone, Caeasarstone and Compac are yet some aren't and it's best to find out before buying. Not sure if Apollo is or isn't.

The one thing I don't agree with is that black granite is better having seen discolouring on a friends kitchen who had Nero black put in. He's now left without any guarantee although it did happen after a couple of years in but you expect this wouldn't happen at all.
We've had our quartz in now for ten months and maybe I should come back in a couple of years to update but it loooks as it did when it was installed and has no stains or disclouration even after the odd spillage of curries and red wine.

madget_2

mwilletts wrote: »

WOW - that's the first time anyone has mentioned sensible and me in the same sentence

OP - the reason they ask you to sign a disclaimer is nothing to do with them possibly supplying a poor quality worktop or messing up the installation, it is due to the nature of the worktop you have selected. Certainly with the colour you have selected, the worktop will be prone to scratching, as are all of the darker Apollo colours. The other problem is that the joints in the worktop (for corners etc) are harder to hide, again due to the way the material works. The reason they get you to sign a disclaimer is so that you cannot claim that they scratch easily or the joints are too prominent. This is the reason why I refuse to sell Apollo worktops (plus the fact Sheridans are a nightmare to deal with if there are any problems) as I have seen some worktops in a real state, after only a few weeks and Sheridan stick to their guns VERY ruthlessly if the disclaimer has been signed...

Whilst I am a big fan of Wickes kitchens, I would NOT advise you to get Apollo worktops from them. For a similar price to what you will have been quoted, you will be able to get Granite or Silestone locally or from the internet.

If you are going for a lighter colour, they are fine, but for anything dark, they are too much trouble. This is also true of Corian and Zodiaq, and is why man-made worktops will never be as durable as natural stones...

If I was you, I'd be saying I wouldn't sign the disclaimer, cancel and get your money back and go elsewhere. You'll thank me in the long run...

A question for mwilletts, or for anyone else who can help me, please.

I'm currently going through the nightmare of having to choose a worktop and have been reading these threads with great interest.

I need something hygienic, non-porous, durable, very practical and easy to maintain. Solid surfacing seems to mostly fit the bill. I also need something that will look good with cream coloured doors and warm oak coloured Karndean.

So I've been carrying out some product testing at home on samples I've obtained. These include spilling olive oil, ketchup, red wine, splashing them with water and leaving them to dry, wiping with Dettox and leaving to dry, and purposefully scratching with a knife.

The products I've been testing have been Axiom and Apollo. I've tried leaving messages requesting samples with Bushboard for their Encore product, but nothing has turned up from them and I can't seem to contact them - which really puts me off, even though I adore their Black Sparkle colourway.

Both Axiom and Apollo performed excellently with regard to staining, and pretty well with watermarks (we live in an extremely hard water area). Unsurprisingly, results so far have verified that black/charcoal (which I love the look of) do indeed show up scratching very badly. Sadly, this seems to rule out the dark colours for me, much as I like them.

With the lighter colours, the one which has performed best and most seems to match my doors and flooring is the Apollo in Grit: sheridan-uk . com / apollo . htm (bottom right - sorry, I've had to adjust the address as I'm not allowed to post links because I'm a newbie, so you'll need to get rid of the spaces). You can see the scratches, but they're not very visible unless you actually look for them.

I'm a little concerned, however, after reading mwillett's comments about Sheridan (who produce Apollo), problems with joints and the worktops being in a state after a while of use.

Would this still apply to a colour such as Grit - the jointing and looking bad a while after installation?

And does anyone have any suggestions as to a better product (I've ruled out granite because of our hard water and the porosity of the surface).

We plan to fit either an Axiom or Duropal worktop in the utility room, but much prefer the smart look of solid surfaces for the kitchen itself. Unless, of course, there is a laminate which gives a very good approximation of that look.

I'm definitely open to suggestions and advice.

Thank you!

Alan_M_2

Recently I've been spending a lot of time looking into quartz surfaces.

As the fabrication and installation process is fundamentally the same as for any stone worktop many of many customers fit both and contstantly ask me if I can supply.

Up till now I've always left this alone, for no other reason than there was no financial insentive for me to sell quartz, the manufacturers want to charge me the sme price for full contianers of product as they'll sell a single piece to my customers..therefore a pointless exercise.

However the quality of quartz that's now being produced in the far east has changed dramatically and is basically the same product as the all the big brand names. I'm off to visit a few factories there at the beginning of march to get some technical specs on the products, view production and processing and collect some samples to chemically test.

One thing I've found throughout all of these products (far eastern and named brands) is the list of instructions I'm provided as a stockist, the main points that stand out are:-

You cannot store quartz solid surface outside as:-

1/ Ultraviolet light (sunlight) will bleach it
2/ Acid rain will etch the surface.

When you read the smallprint in the 10 year guarantee, it does not provide any guarantee agains the product fading, infact the manufacturers expect it to fade, not immediately of course, but gradually over a period of time.

I will start stocking this once I've found something decent. The interesting thing I've discovered is how full of holes all the guarantees are.

In post #34 above, the poster mentions Nero Black granite discolouring. The symptoms described are consistent with the granite being dyed during production to darken it's colour.

This industry can be a minefield, for both manmade and natural products. There is a great deal of misinformation around regards all of these different products.

madget_2

I know what you mean, Alan. I hear one thing about a brand or material, and then the next moment I hear the complete opposite. Very confusing!

Silestone is sounding more and more interesting. Of course, it all depends upon whether we can afford it. Otherwise, I think we'll opt for something like Duropal. It doesn't look as good (though far better than laminates used to), but I've taken a knife and scored the surface of quite a few samples, pressing pretty hard, and some of the textures don't show a single sign of scratching. Most impressive! Even the very dark Flash Black by Duropal stood up amazingly well to my knife test.

Alan_M_2

I had the Silestone rep into me last week, they are a large firm (Cosentino S.A.) and are the leading quartz producer....

You will be paying a proportion of the cost price for the brand and associated costs that that generates....i.e Fernando Alonso's sponsorship which I'm sure isn't chicken feed.

So far I've found them all much of muchness (quartz that is).

I have to say I have no techincal experience of anything other than stone or quartz as I have nothing to do with the laminates or resin tops, so I really can't comment on their durability or suitability,

madget_2

Alan_M wrote: »

i.e Fernando Alonso's sponsorship which I'm sure isn't chicken feed.

That's exactly what my husband said! (He's a big motor racing fan.)

adrian_bond

has anyone looked into glass worktops? you can buy them from at least one place near me called contract glass in norwich or "glass act" i think is their commercial name.

in a related money saving thingy, im using glass for complete splashbacks in my kitchen (all 3 walls) which im sourcing seperatly and painting myself with tile paint, but glass worktops have always intrigued me. they are cheaper than stone, are always glossy, are totally non porus and can be coloured to whatever colour you want. im pretty sure the worktops are un toughened so they will crack instead of shatter if they are broken, but if you were to specify say 15 - 25mm thick then this is gonna be very hard to break!

has any moneysavers tried this yet tho? cheers

pelirocco

I have black granite worktops , and i have never managed to stain or scratch them, and thats not because i have taken any particular care over them lol. The only problem i had with them at first was remembering to put plates etc down carefully , we broke a few items by plonking down !