being veggie

adouglasmhor

Mojisola wrote: »

Out of interest, what do vegans on here eat to get B12? I thought that was only available from meat?

I think it's up to everyone to find their own place along the spectrum. It's the vegetarians/vegans who preach and look down on meat eaters who upset the omnis. I find a "preachy" vegetarian who is tucking into eggs or cheese difficult to take seriously. The way milk and eggs are produced is so far removed from natural methods that eating them while feeling virtuous for not eating meat is hypocritical. It would make far more sense to eat grass-reared beef and lamb and avoid dairy and eggs.

B12 from marmite or other yeast spread or supplements or fortified food. It's made by bacteria not by plants or animals.

Mojisola

adouglasmhor wrote: »

B12 from marmite or other yeast spread or supplements or fortified food. It's made by bacteria not by plants or animals.

But humans don't have that bacteria in their guts. That's why artificially fortified foods have to be eaten or a supplement taken. That's no reason not to be vegan but I think new vegans must be aware of the necessity. We had a friend who became very ill through B12 deficiency. He had trouble accepting that his otherwise very healthy and wholesome diet just couldn't provide one of the essential nutrients.

adouglasmhor

I had vit B12 deficiency even though I was eating meat, (it can be a side effect of liver disiease and some of the drugs for treating it). I also don't think using special strains of yeast counts as any more artificial than force feeding geese or grain feeding livestock.

Fire_Fox

adouglasmhor wrote: »

You don't need protein in every meal unless you are a powerlifter or bodybuilder or a high level athlete, just as long as you get enough overall. Whether you are vegan, vegie, or omnivore. Confused, no you're just nit picking?

The case for the defence, m'lud:

I don't believe I am nit-picking I am contributing to, and learning from, a discussion from an applied biology perspective. Just because we don't agree 100% does not automatically mean I am wrong, nor you. I have made no moral argument for or against, and I have not advocated eating animal products at any stage.

I work in physical activity in the National Health Service: I have studied 'Health-related Exercise and Fitness' and have been offered a place on the third year in 'Health Sciences' NOT 'Sports' as was the easier route. I have also worked (and qualified) in both hospital and retail pharmacy, smoking cessation, and as a senior research laboratory technician.

Sports-specific nutrition and training is completely the other end of the spectrum from healthcare. The vast majority of my clients have weight loss and/ or health goals, tho I certainly have designed sports-specific programmes. The 'diet' I advocate for the vast majority of clients is based around the glycaemic index concept, which fits in perfectly well with a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle. I discourage high protein, low carb and other restrictive diets.

stumpycat

Just to complicate the B12 situation even further... being veggie/vegan may mask the symptoms of B12 deficiency as we tend to have higher folate levels.

I have B12 deficiency (probably pernicious anaemia which is an autoimmune disorder and nothing to do with diet) and get injections every 3 months. Lack of B12 or folate cause similar symptoms - swollen red blood cells and neurological problems, but if you take lots of folate these will be covered up. Unfortunately B12 deficiency can cause permanent damage if it is untreated. This is why there is a campaign against the routine addition of folate to bread.

hula-hoops

I think people assume too much when you ask for vegetarian food. As Kosher food is difficult to obtain in many places outside traditionally Jewish areas and because I don't want to inconvenience anyone who invites me to their place, it's usually just easier to ask for a vegetarian option.

Cheese is made with rennet so two groups of animals are killed for the production - male calves and the cows that provide their stomachs for the rennet. For that reason, cheese is not Kosher but there are Kosher cheeses available made using vegetable rennet. It has always surprised me that people who boast of their vegetarianism with phrases such as 'because I don't think animals should die for my food' will happily eat cheese.

ShaShaSha

want2bmortgage3 wrote: »

what is the point in being veggie?

if still consuming dairy and eggs means that you are contributing to an industry where male calves are shot at birth, and male chicks are gassed or shredded at birth, then surely its a bit hypocritical?

how many veggies realise this i wonder?

i ask because im still sitting on the fence and dont know whether to avoid animal products altogether or eat them and buy only organic well looked after meat.

Totally agree. I am not fond of eating meat at all, but can eat it. I prefer no too, but this is a taste issue aswell as the thought of eating something thats been alive...

I have to eat a lot of dairy, because of my bone condition and I am very aware of the fact that this goes on. I live one field away from a dairy farm, they do not cull there bullocks, they are used for meat. I buy Veil and eat it, and as long as I eat dairy I will continue to - because I dont believe in male calves being killed for no good reason.

I also only eat organic/free range meat/eggs etc because I believe if we are going to eat an animal, it should have a good life.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

I was under the impression that the majority (not all - parmesan is a notable exception) of cheese available today was obtained from non animal rennet, as it is easy to obtain, store and use throughout the year.

Mind you, the non animal version is apparently obtained through genetic modification (which opens another can of worms), so someone could still find fault with that, particularly as I have no idea whether the genetic material concerned comes from an animal source or not.

I think paneer is made using citric or acetic acid, but even then, citric acid is a slightly confusing substance, as it isn't always obtained from lemons.

So...lots of uncertainties as to the best course of action (although it would be arguably simpler to just be vegan and cut out the doubt)

Oh...and a dietician has informed me (with the utmost seriousness) that, as 100g of Marmite contains quite a lot of salt (really? Who would have thought it?), it has been decided upon high that it will no longer be officially recognised as a source of Vitamin B12. I have no idea of the huge numbers of people deemed to be at risk from this salt onslaught, as of course, nobody has allowed for the fact that the usual portion of Marmite is under 5g.

But, something I am certain about...I weighed 9 - 11 stone when I was veggie (cheese, chips and veggie burgers causing the variation). I weighed 19st when I was eating everything (almost literally!), and I am progressively weighing less each week as a result of eating mostly organic and vegan (I do love plain veg and pulses). I would never describe myself as a veggie though, as that would be ridiculous to call myself that when I still eat animal products, even if I take the veg*an option 90% of the time in food and in other ways.

I do have the occasional organic dairy product or bit of something dead when the craving really takes me. That means, whilst I am not as 'perfectly cruelty free' as a veg*an, my impact is less than that of a KFC chomper. It doesn't make me better than anyone, or less of a hypocrite, but I am aware of my actions and their consequences, which is something that veg*ans tend to be in greater numbers than non vegs. And awareness leads to change.

So criticising people for not being ethical enough, and implying that they may as well not bother seems to me to be counterproductive.

So stop picking on the veggies!

stumpycat

hula-hoops wrote: »

I think people assume too much when you ask for vegetarian food. As Kosher food is difficult to obtain in many places outside traditionally Jewish areas and because I don't want to inconvenience anyone who invites me to their place, it's usually just easier to ask for a vegetarian option.

Cheese is made with rennet so two groups of animals are killed for the production - male calves and the cows that provide their stomachs for the rennet. For that reason, cheese is not Kosher but there are Kosher cheeses available made using vegetable rennet. It has always surprised me that people who boast of their vegetarianism with phrases such as 'because I don't think animals should die for my food' will happily eat cheese.

The vast majority of cheese on sale in the UK is veggie. Some cheeses which used to use animal rennet, e.g Jarlsberg & Edam have switched fairly recently. If in any doubt, and it doesn't have a veggie symbol on it, supermarkets usually have a cheese information folder that they will look up for you.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Getting onto Halal or Kosher methods of slaughter is dangerous ground, as both meat eating sides seem to be of the opinion that their way is more humane, so I think I will pass on commenting upon religious dietary requirements...