being veggie

minimiser

whats wrong with being a hypocrite? No one has to justify what they eat provided they are not preaching to others. I have been a veggie for 5 yrs before that ate countless animals so I have no axe to grind. I eat dairy only because i find it too hard to give up- i would prefer not to as i don't want to support the dairy industry but there it is- it wont go away if i don't have my pinta.

Doom_and_Gloom

minimiser wrote: »

I eat dairy only because i find it too hard to give up- i would prefer not to as i don't want to support the dairy industry but there it is- it wont go away if i don't have my pinta.

It's called supply and demand. If people don't demand it they don't supply it as it's not worth the outlay. You give up your pint/week is it? Well I'll go on a week so that is 52 pints/year or around 29.5litres a year.
6300 litres/dairy cow a year is now an average (in the 1940's the level was more natural and around 3000 litres/dairy cow per year). 6300/29.5 = 213.55-ish so if 214 people stopped drinking cow milk that would be the correction of not breeding one more dairy cow to replace an old one and so less supply.*
However many people are drinking a pint a day and that would be 7 pints per week or nearly 4 Litres. 4 Litres times by 52 = 208 litres. 6300/208=30.28-ish so if 31 people stoped drinking cow milk that would be the correction of not breeding one more dairy cow to replace an old one and so less supply.*(calculations are rather estimated but it's to make a point more than anything)

It's the same with all things in all farming. If the demand dips they recalculate their stock as needed. If people stop demanding it eventually the supply will lessen. Simple really but people forget that as a single person you can make a difference even if it is small. If enough people come together it will make the big difference you are after. You just have to stand up and be counted agaist what you don't believe in.

*Let's be honest it also saves the calves she will produce to keep the supply of milk from going to be veal adding to the killing of animals.

Ben84

want2bmortgage3 wrote: »

what is the point in being veggie?

if still consuming dairy and eggs means that you are contributing to an industry where male calves are shot at birth, and male chicks are gassed or shredded at birth, then surely its a bit hypocritical?

how many veggies realise this i wonder?

i ask because im still sitting on the fence and dont know whether to avoid animal products altogether or eat them and buy only organic well looked after meat.

It depends on your reasons for not eating meat. There are several reasons that aren't related to animal cruelty. Personal tastes, as well as the environment. As omnivores who can easily digest plant matter it's much more efficient for us to eat the plants rather than feed them to animals and then eat them. Meat per Kg is in general the highest carbon and pollution emitting food type that humans eat, as well as the biggest resource/water consumer. Dairy comes in second, but is a fair bit lower.

As for animal cruelty, I think your question is a good one, but maybe not entirely fair to vegetarians. It's almost impossible to be perfect with food and animals/the environment. Even if someone is vegan, they typically consume soya and palm oil, both of which are major causes of rainforest destruction which is causing a lot of environmental damage and animal suffering.

It's very hard to avoid that food has environmental costs, but we can try to improve things. Avoiding meat in the hope it means less animal suffering is a reasonable thing to do, even if it doesn't solve all the problems. For similar reasons, recycling your rubbish is a good choice, even if you can't recycle all of it.

It's obvious though that animal issues are far more emotive and polarising than the recycling issues. But then what, become vegan? Even if it means more rainforest destruction? What comes after veganisim and doesn't harm the world in some way? I don't actually know the answer, but it seems to be a question of how far are you able or willing to go to resolve your concerns? I feel that any progress towards them is good, even if you never resolve them all.

Doom_and_Gloom

Ben84 wrote: »

It's almost impossible to be perfect with food and animals/the environment. Even if someone is vegan, they typically consume soya and palm oil, both of which are major causes of rainforest destruction which is causing a lot of environmental damage and animal suffering.

You do realise that around 80% of all the soya produced is actually given to animals as feed. Although I agree soya is a problem for vegans it is more so for vegetarians and then meat eaters even more so than vegans as a whole if individual vegans choose to consume it. It does get to me that people forget that the vast majority of food that could be consumed by humans directly goes through a secondary food source that is wasteful (not saying you have as you did basically say that). However when it comes into it soya production for vegans is a very small concern overall.

AbFab

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Eating a balanced vegan diet requires research and planning which is many vegetarians and vegans downfall. I don't believe that's a misconception - it's based on my degree level knowledge of nutrition and several years experience of advising clients on healthy eating through my work in the fitness industry. I would agree that plenty of meat-eaters have no idea about nutrition either - they seem to learn a lot of their 'facts' from faddy weight loss diet clubs and books! :rolleyes:

In London I have no doubt it's easy to find vegan 'fast' food: however lots of Brits live and work in rather less cosmopolitan surroundings! A salad and jacket potato is hardly a balanced meal - where is the protein?

You obviously only advise people who need advice, so I don't think you've really come to the right conclusion there! The veg*ns who come to you are surely only a tiny percentage of the vegans in the world. The rest of us are perfectly capable of doing a little research and planning ourselves, and coming to the conclusion that following a healthful vegan diet is the optimum one. Once you get the basic understanding, it's really not that difficult at all to be vegan. I've been vegan for ten years, and it's easy.

As for the jacket potato and salad, no, it's not ideal, but I believe it was used as an example of one meal in the day, and not really such a big deal if you don't get everything you need once, here and there. Besides, there is protein in every plant cell, so it's actually not that lacking.

Doom_and_Gloom has made every point I would have, so just wanted to add my support of those arguments. Well said!

AbFab

As for the other points. No, we can't always be perfect - unless we live in a cave and live on air. But we can do our utmost. I am convinced that being vegan is an easy way to reduce your environmental impact, improve your health, and be nice to the animals.

A_fiend_for_life

Doom_and_Gloom wrote: »

You do realise that around 80% of all the soya produced is actually given to animals as feed. Although I agree soya is a problem for vegans it is more so for vegetarians and then meat eaters even more so than vegans as a whole if individual vegans choose to consume it. It does get to me that people forget that the vast majority of food that could be consumed by humans directly goes through a secondary food source that is wasteful (not saying you have as you did basically say that). However when it comes into it soya production for vegans is a very small concern overall.

93% was the last I read though not sure on the scope eg UK / Europe / global. A big proportion nevertheless. Bear in mind soya for animal feed is a 'by product' of biofuel production. I presume it is classed as a by product as there is greater demand and price for the soya oil.

moonrakerz

AbFab wrote: »

No, we can't always be perfect - unless we live in a cave and live on air.

People have tried that - and ended up dead perfect !

want2bmortgage3

if an animal has had a decent life (good living conditions, enough freedom) and then is killed instantly and doesnt have time to feel pain or realise whats happening then is there a problem with meat

my body doesnt seem to cope with processed soya very well, quorn isnt a lot better, but fish well i have no problems after eating that...

Ken68

Same thinking here Want...tinned fish terrific value. almost all protein, same with eggs, so eat less.
Curious how not much info on minimum protein needed per person. As for buying and cooking chunks of meat where a quarter to half is grizzle and sinew, no way.