being veggie

fernliebee

My DD and I have been vegan for just over a year, before that I had been vegetarian my whole life and had never even tried meat.

I am hypocritical in some senses though as I have to make the best of it for my DD. Although we eat a vegan diet, I do buy her leather shoes as I feel plastic shoes are really bad for their foot health, and I feel it is important to ensure she always has fitted, good quality shoes. The other thing I am hypocritical about is homeopathy, I give DD nelsons teetha granules (although they contain lactose, as I would rather she had these than give her sugar free 'aspartame ridden' Calpol) I realise I can buy lactose free chamomilla instead but they are very pricey (which I can't really afford, and are difficult to get hold of too. I am working on building up a supply of Lactose free homeopathic remedies, once she has finished teething.

Ultimately, whatever anybody thinks I will do the best for my own family within the constraints of availability and economy. My main reasons for becoming vegan were to minimise the amount of antibiotics my DD was exposed to, as she is breastfed, I also had to do it to ensure she wasn't getting them. I have no issue with antibiotics to treat an illness, but that is their place, not in the food we eat on a daily basis IMO.

I believe people should do whatever feels right for them and their family, whether it may be construed as hypocritical or not, it's not for others to judge. It depends on peoples reasoning as to whether it is hypocritical too, eg if your doing it for animal cruelty reasons it is a bit hypocritical IMO to eat eggs and dairy, however if you are veggie because you don't like meat then it isn't hypocritical at all IMO.

Mojisola

Out of interest, what do vegans on here eat to get B12? I thought that was only available from meat?

I think it's up to everyone to find their own place along the spectrum. It's the vegetarians/vegans who preach and look down on meat eaters who upset the omnis. I find a "preachy" vegetarian who is tucking into eggs or cheese difficult to take seriously. The way milk and eggs are produced is so far removed from natural methods that eating them while feeling virtuous for not eating meat is hypocritical. It would make far more sense to eat grass-reared beef and lamb and avoid dairy and eggs.

IamJen

Dr_DiNg_DoNg wrote: »

If somebody is a vegetarian for ethical reasons, but can not give up dairy and eggs, then that is still a huge step forward in minimising their impact on animal suffering compared to meat eaters.

Yep.

juliapenguin wrote: »

Has anyone read 'Animal, Vegetable, Miracle' by Barbara Kingsolver? It's a wonderful book about her attempts to feed her family using completely local food and she has some really interesting things to say on this topic. She's a great writer ('The Poisonwood Bible' is un-put-downable) and the book is never preachy or annoying.

Definitely worth reading, if you're interested in this side of the ethical debate about vegetarianism/veganism.

I've read this, along with many of my mates/family. She has an interesting idea, but I don't think that her particular solution is applicable to many, unless of course you want move to rural SouthEast America

want2bmortgage3 wrote: »

whats diet for a small planet sounds like a good book to read?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_for_a_Small_Planet It's a very informative book, although it's been out for a few years, so some of the stats may be outdated. I'd recommend Fast Food Nation as well. It's based on American agriculture, but the situation is much the same in the UK.

As for needing to know a lot about nutrition, I really don't think you need to any more than the average person, it's just different. Iron, B12 and vitamin D deficiencies are quite common in the (omnivorous) population, at large, for instance.

My other half and I have been vegan for 5 or 6 years now (there was some transition period in there), and vegetarian for about 10 years before that. My other half has soya milk almost daily, in cereal, but aside from that, we very little soya. I think people often have this idea that vegans need to have lots of "substitutes", but those things are just superfluous.

We're both from abroad, and are actually amazed at how easy it is to be vegan here, so I don't think the inconvenience aspect mentioned, is really applicable. Hummus sandwiches, samosas (and other assorted Indian fare), jacket potatoes with beans, are easily found most places. We might read labels more than others, but we've never gone hungry.

I don't mean to be a vegan evangelist, as I think that people need to find their own path. However, I think there are a lot of misconceptions about veganism.

(and no, we don't wear leather shoes )

Doom_and_Gloom

Mojisola wrote: »

Out of interest, what do vegans on here eat to get B12? I thought that was only available from meat.

Many vegans obtain B12 through things like yeast extract/soya milks that has it added or other such fortified foods. B12 used to be found easily in plants as it was in the soil but due to the intense farming/pesticide/insectiside etc use it's been 'washed' out of the soil. This made it so the vegetables/fruit/grains etc that used to be a viable source no longer are. It is 'possible' to obtain it just on vegetables/fruit/grains etc but it certainly should not be relied on anymore. It's a shame that humans have done so much damage to the soil of this earth when it's healthy soil that's needed to feed us all in the long run.

That is a common misconception about meat etc. B12 is basically cobalt which is a bacteriam activated substance. Most B12 that is in meats/dairy etc are synthetic forms that are given to animals in their feed. Omnis can be deficient in it just as easily as vegetarians and vegans as it's not always diet that causes B12 deficiencies. Body absorption problems, certain percription drugs can lessen absorption (such as those for diabetes), hereditary causes and even some parasites can cause problems with B12 and that's not even going into a B12 kind of anemia etc that can also happen. There are many reasons that may not be diet related at all.

There have been studies conducted that have found that the average vegan is deficient in only 3 nutrients (calcium, iodine and B12), where as the average omnivoure was deficient in 7 nutrients (calcium, iodine, vitamin C, vitamin E, fibre, folate and magnesium). The study also concluded that "vegans were shown to have higher intakes of 16 out of the 19 nutrients studied, including calcium. The vegans were getting more than enough protein on average and three times more vitamin C, three times more vitamin E, three times more fiber. Vegans got twice the folate, twice the magnesium, twice the copper, twice the manganese."

B12 is the only real nutrient a vegan needs to be careful with but if they are getting it in a fortified source or a tablet form if they wish then they should be just fine. Everything else is a problem for the whole population and maybe even more so for omnis as the study sugests.

Ste_C

Mojisola wrote: »

It's the vegetarians/vegans who preach and look down on meat eaters who upset the omnis. I find a "preachy" vegetarian who is tucking into eggs or cheese difficult to take seriously.

It's funny because I know several vegetarians and a couple of vegans, yet none of them preach. They just go on about their lives, yet when people find out about their eating choices they start preaching to them, accusing them of hypocrisy, judging them and generally looking down their nose at them.

It's the same on any thread on forums like this, the people who shout the loudest and do the most preaching are those who eat meat and are almost "anti-veggie".

Nobody needs to justify why they eat what they do or why they live their life in a certain way.

SailorSam

I was watching a programme on tv last week, 4 or 5 lads had gone to Siberia to learn to be reindeer herders, one was a vegetarian and tried to explain to the locals who they were staying with. In the wilds of Siberia they only do meat, they couldn't understand him.
The crunch came when they needed to castrate the deer, they can't use knives or pliers any sort of tools in case they infect the deer, so need to use their teeth, taking the animal in their mouth and biting .
The vege couldn't do it, ......
but neither could one of the others......they'd only just met.

spidystrider

I am a veggie but not vegan. I eat cheese and eggs but don't consume milk, chocolate, icecream or very much else that includes dairy products. I also don't wear leather.

I do hate the thought of animals dying to feed me and would love to have nothing to do with the dairy industry but just can't see myself going vegan.

I would never preach or force my views down anyones throat but believe people should know where there food comes from.

I also don't care what anyone thinks of my choice of life as I have a mind of my own and choose what is right for me.

Thankfully all 3 of my children are veggie and I have a very understanding husband who would never think of eating meat inside our home. He does in fact love vegetarian food, but will eat meat on a night out.

eco

I am a veggie, but am lactose intollerent, which is a pain in the bum, but I wouldn't criticse anyone who wants to eat meat, just as long as they don't go on at me for not wanting to. What made me veggie was living near an abboitioir the place stank, and one bank holiday in may I saw the cows arriving on the Friday, and one of them was mooing all weekend, the RSPCA weren't interested even tho the place was locked up and no one came near the place, by the time Tuesday came round and I'd rung round to complain the cow was dead and I had no proof. This was 13 years ago so hopefully attitudes have changed.
I think it's good tho that a lot of people are into ethical farming and where the meats come from, although the flip side is not everyone can afford to buy more expensive meat which is a shame.

A_fiend_for_life

Ken68 wrote: »

Same thinking here Want...tinned fish terrific value. almost all protein, same with eggs, so eat less.
Curious how not much info on minimum protein needed per person. As for buying and cooking chunks of meat where a quarter to half is grizzle and sinew, no way.

From biology I remember, for adults the rule of thumb was 1g / kg body mass per day. More if your active. We certainly eat too much meat / protein for our activity as a population but measures of 45g and 55g per day sound like rations to me.

This is where I am a bit vague. Kids and teenagers are higher since they are growing. I seem to remember 1.5 g per kg body mass per day for teenagers but might be higher for kids. Certainly no-one should act on this without consulting a dietician.

Agree on the oily fish though I probably eat too much.:o

adouglasmhor

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Eating a balanced vegan diet requires research and planning which is many vegetarians and vegans downfall. I don't believe that's a misconception - it's based on my degree level knowledge of nutrition and several years experience of advising clients on healthy eating through my work in the fitness industry. I would agree that plenty of meat-eaters have no idea about nutrition either - they seem to learn a lot of their 'facts' from faddy weight loss diet clubs and books! :rolleyes:

In London I have no doubt it's easy to find vegan 'fast' food: however lots of Brits live and work in rather less cosmopolitan surroundings! A salad and jacket potato is hardly a balanced meal - where is the protein?

You don't need protein in every meal unless you are a powerlifter or bodybuilder or a high level athlete, just as long as you get enough overall. Whether you are vegan, vegie, or omnivore. Confused, no you're just nit picking?
Vegan fast food with protein, chips and baked beans, spud and baked beans, Indian take aways do lentil dahl or veg dhansak, some kebab shops do humous or fallafel, that's just of the top of my head. And my examples are not in London.