Crunch time for council workers’ golden pensions

Annpan

I worked in the Public Sector before it was privatised - the Water Board. And from those heady days of employment my 7 year frozen pension will pay out a massive £30 per week when I'm 60 - and I was well paid. Happy days though making sure everyones water was drinkable. I have no idea what the pension for the privatised Water Authority is like now. Anyone know?

SuzieSue

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

Some schemes I understand are funded, others are partially funded and others aren't funded at all, and I agree with you something has to be done about it - but you can't just scrap them with immediate effect - I wouldn't have thought any government would try to do that - more likely over time move towards funded schemes. Some people have paid into schemes most of their working lives - after Maxwell, private schemes have a compensation scheme funded by the gov't. (I could be wrong about the funding - but I think it is gov't), so it isn't reasonable to think public sector employees should be treated any differently.
QUOTE]

The compensation scheme is not funded by the government, it is funded by all the other final salary schemes.

As a shareholder (through my dwindling private pensions) I would also like to see all private companies stop their final salary shemes as all their profits are being used to prop up their ailing pension schemes.

Annpan

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Can I borrow your rose tinted spectacles when you've finished with them?

All public sector staff underpaid ??? - you're having a laugh, surely. Remind me what teachers, doctors, policemen etc etc are paid.

One million private sector workers are on national minimum wage - NO public sector employee is (and that's before you add in pensions, job security, generous holidays etc). They're the ones that are underpaid.

I believe there are vacancies for support staff in schools if you're interested and want to join this highly paid work force - only thing is, you won't get paid during the holidays, but the pension must be fantastic mustn't it? Otherwise why all this fuss?

Old_Slaphead

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

after Maxwell, private schemes have a compensation scheme funded by the gov't. (I could be wrong about the funding - but I think it is gov't), so it isn't reasonable to think public sector employees should be treated any differently.

It's funded by a levy on the private schemes themselves. That's another reason why the schemes are closing ie they and not the taxpayer are obliged to bail out other private (poorly managed/funded ?) schemes.

As regard the funded schemes ie LGP ones - they may be funded but they're also UNDERFUNDED regards liabilities. The next 3 yearly pension review in 2010 will reveal a significant deterioration in their financing (as the last review was in 2007 ie before stockmarket downturn).

Old_Slaphead

Annpan wrote: »

I believe there are vacancies for support staff in schools if you're interested and want to join the highly paid work staff - only thing is, you won't get paid during the holidays, but the pension must be fantastic mustn't it? Otherwise why all this fuss?

Try reading my posting - I didn't say ALL jobs were well paid (nb I know some support staff & I know they're not paying higher rate of tax) what I did say is that all staff are not underpaid (some are but most are not).

donaldtramp

I agree with you largely re the benefits part, but not really re the public sector. I can't feel that education, health, police or so many other essential services would be better off run by faceless, unaccountable private corporations, as you presumably do.

Or would you rather do away with education, healthcare and police, for example, and live in a state of illiterate anarchy with no healthcare?

I just don't get it, honestly.

I'd love to hear your vision of Utopia. Honestly, please share - I just don't get where you're coming from.

Ah..... the standard defence put forward for the whole public sector.:rolleyes:

The poor teachers(massive, ludicrous, paid holiday entitlement plus pensions)
The poor doctors (GPs are now on over a hundred grand a year, plus pensions, a pay settlement even their BMA couldn't believe at the time)
Who will police us? (The police retirement age is max 55. You can retire at 49 if you started at 19 after thirty years service) You then get a lump sum, ability to start another job and a bullet proof tax-payer funded pension for life)

And you don't get why people are annoyed and politicians have finally woken up to it?
I notice you mention all the "worthwhile" services. What about the far greater proportion of the public sector who brings none of these "worthwhile" services?

I believe in good government but that does not mean it has to expand to the level it has under the current government to generate nonsensical jobs which only add bureaucracy, expense and future liabilities to the taxpayer.

The state has expanded too far. Did you know that recently 30-40% of all advertising in the media was from the state? We don't NEED to be told what to do all the time. That is ridiculous.

The only reason we are able to function carrying this size of state is Browns overdraft. When this runs out (handily after his term of office:rolleyes:) there is going to be real pain. If you can't see it coming, you need to get real.

If you "don't get it," you're going to have to learn learn fast as the state is rolled back massively (pensions, jobs and all) by whoever has the misfortune of winning the next election.:rolleyes:

StevieJ

SuzieSue wrote: »

[
QUOTE]

The compensation scheme is not funded by the government, it is funded by all the other final salary schemes.

As a shareholder (through my dwindling private pensions) I would also like to see all private companies stop their final salary shemes as all their profits are being used to prop up their ailing pension schemes.

Ah I see, no company offered you a final salary scheme and you are a bit miffed

SuzieSue

donaldtramp wrote: »

Ah..... the standard defence put forward for the whole public sector.:rolleyes:

The poor teachers(massive, ludicrous, paid holiday entitlement plus pensions)
The poor doctors (GPs are now on over a hundred grand a year, plus pensions, a pay settlement even their BMA couldn't believe at the time)
Who will police us? (The police retirement age is max 55. You can retire at 49 if you started at 19 after thirty years service) You then get a lump sum, ability to start another job and a bullet proof tax-payer funded pension for life)

And you don't get why people are annoyed and politicians have finally woken up to it?
I notice you mention all the "worthwhile" services. What about the far greater proportion of the public sector who brings none of these "worthwhile" services?

I believe in good government but that does not mean it has to expand to the level it has under the current government to generate nonsensical jobs which only add bureaucracy, expense and future liabilities to the taxpayer.

The state has expanded too far. Did you know that recently 30-40% of all advertising in the media was from the state? We don't NEED to be told what to do all the time. That is ridiculous.

The only reason we are able to function carrying this size of state is Browns overdraft. When this runs out (handily after his term of office:rolleyes:) there is going to be real pain. If you can't see it coming, you need to get real.

If you "don't get it," you're going to have to learn learn fast as the state is rolled back massively (pensions, jobs and all) by whoever has the misfortune of winning the next election.:rolleyes:

Or to put it more succinctly, we have run out of money. Just like for so many people, who have borrowed too much and spent too much, the good times are over for ever.

SuzieSue

StevieJ wrote: »

Ah I see, no company offered you a final salary scheme and you are a bit miffed

Yes, I have never had a final salary pension scheme.

bendix

carolt wrote: »

It's interesting - MSE readers overwhelmingly disagree with you, as evidenced by last week's poll on the NHS - it may not be perfect, but overall, we're basically quite happy with it.
.

My dear carolt. I can hardly be responsible for everyone else on MSE being wrong and muddle-headed, can I?