toys r us customer services stinks

Altarf

hollydays wrote:

I i did notice a sign on the side wall saying something like-we reserve the right to search the bags of all customers leaving the premesis.However i seriously question the legality of this,it is only Police Officers who can search,and even a shoplifter who has been arrested can not be searched by a civilian without that persons permission. If i was asked to empty my bags I would refuse and say they will have to call the Police if they want to do this,and proceed to leave the store.Any attempt to stop me exiting would be a very serious matter.I daresay the store has the right to display whatever signs it wants,but that doesnt mean to say I have to surrender my legal rights.

Interesting that you talk about rights. The store security staff only need reasonable suspicion that you have committed an arrestable offence (shoplifting) for them to have the power to arrest you.

By you refusing to abide by the conditions on which they allowed you to enter the store, they might consider that you would only refuse to allow them to search your bags if you had something to hide and thus you have given them the reasonable suspicion needed to arrest you.

JasonLVC

Security staff have no right of arrest. All they can do is hold you until a proper police officer arrives. They cannot search you either, regardless of their suspicions. Any search by them could be considered an assault if you have not given permission.

The police officer can conduct the search, but only if he/she has reasonable cause to suspect a crime has been committed, otherwise the rules of PACE come into play. A police officer is unlikely to persue this on the say-so of a security guard, and espeically if you've just walked into the shop.

If you are searched and nothing found you could make an official complaint to the police and the store for harrasment depending upon your colour/race.

If you refused a search and were arrested (unlikely) upon finding you had not stolen anything, you could then sue for wrongful arrest and then, on the back of that, defamation of character against TRU. And you'd win.

Security staff have to have more than just suspicion to hold you, otherwise you could also argue you were held against your will (as they'd be unlikely to let you just walk out) at which point, the security guard will have committed a criminal offence (akin to kidnapping) - unless their suspicioins is more than just based on how you're dressed!. That would be a criminal matter under the race Relations Act!.

Basically, what I am saying is that the lasw is quite clear and that shops, signs and rules are not to be considered as legal in the same way as the law itself. Sure, a shop can ask you to leave if you kick up a fuss and you are equally not oblgied to shop there. But, to say shops have legal powers of arrest and search is just not true. Shop staff may think that, but the law says otherwise.

gregg1

Altarf wrote:

Interesting that you talk about rights. The store security staff only need reasonable suspicion that you have committed an arrestable offence (shoplifting) for them to have the power to arrest you.

By your refusing to abide by the conditions on which they allowed you to enter the store, they might consider that you would only refuse to allow them to search your bags if you had something to hide and thus you have given them the reasonable suspicion needed to arrest you.

actually, they have to have a little more proof than "reasonable suspicion". They must be able to prove that the suspect intended to commit theft and that he/she appropriated the property with the intention permanently to deprive the owner of it. So they must be sure that the person has knowingly taken the goods from their premises with no intention of paying for them or returning them. If they have no doubt that a crime has been committed, then, and only then do they have the power to make an arrest.

As for that last para - are we still discussing shops where people go to spend their hard earned cash or have I missed something? - from what you are implying, we should have no objection whatsoever to being subjected to a similar level of suspicion and security checks when we go into shops as I imagine you would encounter on a PRISON visit!

hollydays

One would have to have reasonable suspicion that an offence had been committed (none here),and that the person was the person responsible.The elements of theft are for the person to have dishonestly appropropriated property with the intention to permanently deprive (theft act 1968).So again you talking rubbish.A civilian can detain on reasonable suspicion (not the same as suspicion of theft) under very strict conditions,they do not have the same powers as a police officer.(security staff do have a power of arrest,thats why its called a citizens arrest!)

gregg1

hollydays wrote:

One would have to have reasonable suspicion that an offence had been committed (none here),and that the person was the person responsible.The elements of theft are for the person to have dishonestly appropropriated property with the intention to permanently deprive (theft act 1968).So again you talking rubbish.A civilian can detain on reasonable suspicion (not the same as suspicion of theft) under very strict conditions,they do not have the same powers as a police officer.(security staff do have a power of arrest,thats why its called a citizens arrest!)

hollydays - were you replying to the other bloke - think you were but just wanted to make sure (I am on your side)

mrt_2

Did you know TRU do NOT have a complaints policy - how disgraceful in this day and age.

I posted a thread a couple of weeks ago about problems with TRU and a faulty pram we bought. Their customer services is so poor and so was the attitude of the store Manager at Teeside Park Mbro. I wrote to the senior manager at Gateshead with no response. Eventually I found the Name of the Head of Customer Service-
Marjorie Jenkins,
Geoffrey House
Vanwall Business Park
Maiden Head
SL6 4UB

who apparently answers directly to the CX

I did not get any where with Marjorie and then found the name of the PA to the CX - Mary Evans - to be fair is the only person to date has had the decency to return my calls and offered to look into my complaint. My complaint is far from being resolved but maybe you could write to Mary and see where that goes - good luck

hollydays

yeah sorry gregg not you,an i dont mean to attack altarf,but i do think its important people only give out correct facts here

gregg1

hollydays wrote:

yeah sorry gregg not you,an i dont mean to attack altarf,but i do think its important people only give out correct facts here

thats OK - I quite agree with you, altarf was incorrect with some of the facts he quoted.

freebie_junkie

im getting confused, is it being said somewhere here that upon just enetreing a shop carruing a carrier bag from another shop i am immediately under suspicion for shop lifting because by carrying a bag that is their proof? well, if tahts the case, were all bu*gerd in shopping centres arent we?!

busymumof3

freebie_junkie I am in agreement with you. If ToysRus have this policy then they should have it for everyone. They should provide shrinkwrapping/sealing of shopping bags or some other secure place to leave them. People should not be made to feel as though they personally are under suspicion. The majority of outlets I have come across are in retail parks so most people would just leave other shopping in the car. I have seen me being dropped off at our local retail park and picked up a couple of hours later by my husband - a nice free left luggage facility would suit me fine at Christmas :rotfl:

I have to rate Toysrus pretty low on the retail scale and I only ever go there if there is a super unbeatable offer on. Have you ever tried getting a refund or exchange after Christmas. I was told that they only exchanged without a receipt on Boxing Day. You what. They either exchange or they don't. Seems to be another moveable policy.

Let us know how you get on.