Unenforceability & Template Letters

captainhaggis

I just remembered also that the CCA 1974 says that "A consumer credit agreement is a personal credit agreement by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit not exceeding £5,000."

How does this impact on loans/cards for over £5k?

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

Thanks a million! Was just confused cos earlier you'd said to

Sorry, either letter will do but the correct one has now been identified.

captainhaggis wrote: »

So I shall cancel payments with immediate effect and get the above in the post to them - signed for - tomorrow morning.

Yup. As you're already defaulted then just stop payments asap. Send it recorded delivery so you get proof of delivery/date delivered.

captainhaggis wrote: »

- but, do I not edit the letter a little? The letter says that the CCA didn't include ANY of the terms prescribed. Should I say "some of the terms"?

Yes, sorry all the templates need to be personalised and spell checked - you need to make is personal to you. I'll edit the one above to suit your needs so check back and when you see the edited version, use that.

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

I just remembered also that the CCA 1974 says that "A consumer credit agreement is a personal credit agreement by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit not exceeding £5,000."

How does this impact on loans/cards for over £5k?

What CCA - the one they sent you? If you're referring to the Consumer Credit Act (not the consumer credit agreement) then I dunno where it came from but it's not relevant.

If yours was higher then no difference. Don't worry about it. If your agreement stated that the bank wouldn;t give you more than £5k then that is a different matter (i.e. the agreement they sent you limits it to £5k)

captainhaggis

never-in-doubt wrote: »

What CCA - the one they sent you? If you're referring to the Consumer Credit Act (not the consumer credit agreement) then I dunno where it came from but it's not relevant.

If yours was higher then no difference. Don't worry about it. If your agreement stated that the bank wouldn;t give you more than £5k then that is a different matter (i.e. the agreement they sent you limits it to £5k)

Hi dude,

In this case I was referring to the Consumer Credit Act. Shall ignore accordingly

Thansk soooooooo much for your help with this letter. I think when I've seen one modified for individual circumstances it'll prepare me better for future letters.

I got a reply from Egg saying they need proof of my address before they can do anything (for they claim to have a different address on file for me - makes sense as a default notice was sent to my old flat). They're buying time though, I think.

How did you get so good at this?

Thanks a sqazillion again.

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

Hi dude,

In this case I was referring to the Consumer Credit Act. Shall ignore accordingly

Thansk soooooooo much for your help with this letter. I think when I've seen one modified for individual circumstances it'll prepare me better for future letters.

I got a reply from Egg saying they need proof of my address before they can do anything (for they claim to have a different address on file for me - makes sense as a default notice was sent to my old flat). They're buying time though, I think.

How did you get so good at this?

Thanks a sqazillion again.

Letter has been amended......

Ok, regards to egg - they sent the default to your incorrect address? Cool, then they shall remove such default as being incorrectly served. What to do is send them the ID they ask for and add the bit below (quoted) in your letter:

You're right they will buying time, to be fair you could refuse and say as they are unsure it is you then they must remove all trace of the account from your name and address. Its a catch 22. However, personally i'd send the bit below which shoves a bigger rocket up their ars! :rotfl:

I've spend 2 years of my life fighting these scum and so have learned a lot in that time..... after one round of fighting you learn the facts pretty much - I had 50 incorrect defaults against me. Now I have none

Send this to egg:

the default registered is in fact unlawful and a clear breach of s.87 & 88 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) and, as such, i'd like you to consider immediate removal of the default whilst this matter is being investigated by the relevant governing bodies, bearing in mind you are classified as the data controller and can be held liable to any libel litigation I may puruse.

I quote:

s.87 - Need for default notice

(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,

(a) to terminate the agreement, or

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

(c) to recover possession of any goods or land, or

(d) to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, or

(e) to enforce any security.

(2) Subsection (1) does not prevent the creditor from treating the right to draw upon any credit as restricted or deferred, and taking such steps as may be necessary to make the restriction or deferment effective.

(3) The doing of an act by which a floating charge becomes fixed is not enforcement of a security.

(4) Regulations may provide that subsection (1) is not to apply to agreements described by the regulations.

s.88 - Contents and effect of default notice

(1) The default notice must be in the prescribed form and specify

(a) the nature of the alleged breach;

(b) if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date before which that action is to be taken;

(c) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach, and the date before which it is to be paid.

(2) A date specified under subsection (1) must not be less than seven days after the date of service of the default notice, and the creditor or owner shall not take action such as is mentioned in section 87(1) before the date so specified or (if no requirement is made under subsection (1)) before those seven days have elapsed.

(3) The default notice must not treat as a breach failure to comply with a provision of the agreement which becomes operative only on breach of some other provision, but if the breach of that other provision is not duly remedied or compensation demanded under subsection (1) is not duly paid, or (where no requirement is made under subsection (1)) if the seven days mentioned in subsection (2) have elapsed, the creditor or owner may treat the failure as a breach and section 87(1) shall not apply to it.

(4) The default notice must contain information in the prescribed terms about the consequences of failure to comply with it.

(5) A default notice making a requirement under subsection (1) may include a provision for the taking of action such as is mentioned in section 87(1) at any time after the restriction imposed by subsection (2) will cease, together with a statement that the provision will be ineffective if the breach is duly remedied or the compensation duly paid.

s.87(1) of the CCA1974 clearly states that a default notice must be served before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor. As you have failed to serve this on me at my correct dwelling, and not allowed me the statutory time frame in which to allow query/payment; then you are in clear breach.

never-in-doubt

In fact, before sending the above letter to Egg - send the following one and if they respond and prove it is you then send the one above about the default. It'd be better to call their bluff and have them prove to you that you're the right person lol.

I assume they have registered a default against you and you sent the CCA request off to them? If so, is the default at your current or previous address?

Letter to send egg before the one above is:

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

After recently obtaining a copy of my Credit File from the Credit Reference Agencies, I am concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against an alleged account I held with you.

Further to this, I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit. Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 cheque to cover the statutory fee.

2. Please also supply me with a signed, true certified copy of the original default notice.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

I would request that this data is provided to me within the next 14 days. If you are unable to provide this data then I require all adverse information to be removed completely, including any defaults that may have been applied. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

captainhaggis

Thanks for the further advice re: Egg. I think they're the people I most wanna stick it to! They're horrid.

Can I ask you one last question about the LTSB thing? and d

I've looked at SI 1983/1553 but cannot see anything mentioned about an address being needed but I can see that Lloyds should have signed the agreement, too. They've not done that so I've got them there, aswell!

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

Thanks for the further advice re: Egg. I think they're the people I most wanna stick it to! They're horrid.

Can I ask you one last question about the LTSB thing? and d

I've looked at SI 1983/1553 but cannot see anything mentioned about an address being needed but I can see that Lloyds should have signed the agreement, too. They've not done that so I've got them there, aswell!

Did you see revised way to treat egg? Send the latter one before the default ars kicking letter!

Regards to the prescribed terms, they are on page 1 of this thread. We've never mentioned anything about the address being mentioned (i.e. in the letter you will send you do not give a reason, just that you know the prescribed terms are not intact), simply that the prescribed terms are not intact (SI 1983/1553 is simply in referral to them) thus meaning all you're doing is letting them know that you know they are not intact - you don't go telling them why they're not intact, leave it to them to prove to you... following me yet? :rotfl:

captainhaggis

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Did you see revised way to treat egg? Send the latter one before the default ars kicking letter!

Regards to the prescribed terms, they are on page 1 of this thread. We've never mentioned anything about the address being mentioned (i.e. in the letter you will send you do not give a reason, just that you know the prescribed terms are not intact), simply that the prescribed terms are not intact (SI 1983/1553 is simply in referral to them) thus meaning all you're doing is letting them know that you know they are not intact - you don't go telling them why they're not intact, leave it to them to prove to you... following me yet? :rotfl:

:rotfl:I think I'm keeping up. But I've had a few beers.

I understand why we don't do their job for them and tell them why they aren't compliant, but I have looked at what the prescribed terms are and I've been unable to find anywhere that says something along the lines of the CCA needing to include the name and address of the debtor

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

:rotfl:I think I'm keeping up. But I've had a few beers.

I understand why we don't do their job for them and tell them why they aren't compliant, but I have looked at what the prescribed terms are and I've been unable to find anywhere that says something along the lines of the CCA needing to include the name and address of the debtor

This forms part of the CCA mate - common sense prevails that it has to show who owns the agreement lol.... sorry missed what you were saying.

Don't worry about it, just send the letter as-is and see what they send back to you..... the prescribed terms will be incorrect anyway, they know this or they'd have sent the right version relating to you (i.e. a copy of the original) so just play the game.....

Don't worry - you'll be fine.