Unenforceability & Template Letters

never-in-doubt

yello wrote: »

Hello,
Buchanan Clark & Wells have been chasing me for a £3507 debt which isn’t mine. I sent them the CCA request letter and they have returned my postal order and told me that they have closed the file at their office. However, they said that I would have to contact their clients (Aktiv Kapital) to request a copy of a CCA. I have been chased for this debt at a previous address by Thames Credit and I want to make sure it doesn’t just get passed to another debt collection agency. Even though the debt isn’t mine the letters are intimidating and worrying. What is the best next step that I can take? Should I send the CCA request to Aktiv Kapital? Would the letter be the same format as the standard CCA request?
Any advice really would be gratefully received.

Hiya

Send the following letter - from page1....

Do not accept liability! When you say it is not your debt, are they addressing it to you or someone else at your address? Please clarify before sending the letter away:

You know nothing of the Debt

Dear Sirs,

Account No:

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself. I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

I am familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable and in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question and await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

Sorry to butt in here but can NID/etc help on this question?

I foolishly made a partial offer to settle a debt back in 2007 with 1st Credit Ltd. It shows on my CRA files a current balance as satisfied but a default balance of £2650. Id didn't realise until recently there is a default showing still. 1st Credit who are showing as the owner of the data refuse to remove it, saying I admitted the debt via settlement and it shows a true refelction of events etc.

I had little knowledge of these matters back in 2007 and was being pressurised into making a settlement via a string of threatening letters from 1st Credit Ltd etc (I know better now but not back then!)

I recall the original creditor was Goldfish (Now, I understand owned by Barclays PLC)

What can I do here, as I really want to get this default or entry removed from my file. Can I send Barclays a CCA or SAR indeed any other communication? Am I still able to do this even though I foolishly made a partial settlement back in 2007? 1st Credit Ltd I guess may think I'll come back to them to try and make a better settlement for them to agree to remove their data?

I don't know if there was any deed of assignment between Barclays PLC and 1st Credit Ltd, I guess Barclays having taken over Goldfish may even not be able to find the original data?

What are my options and chances please? Thank you

Not much you can do to be honest. They are right that a default can remain cos in essence you did default. Its one of those that to get it removed may mean proving assignment and the actual issuance of the default but this may involve court etc....

Can you confirm, you paid the whole balance in 2007 to 1st Credit, and your credit file shows a satisfied default or are you saying there is a part satisfied and a part outstanding?

Please confirm and i'll be able to help better.....

captainhaggis

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Regards to the agreement, it looks enforceable to me...... :mad:

Evening, NID. Hope you're well.

Question for you regarding this judgement :

If the lender can leave out things like personal data, signatures etc from the CCAs they send back, what's stopping them all simply writing out brand new CCAs (like Lloyds did for me) and sending them out?

By now they should know all the information that needs to be on there and if one gets an agreement through like "cejsmith" did, how is he/she to know this wasn't typed up and printed off two days ago?

In other words, the actual CCA may not exist or may be invalid but by the sounds of things they can just make up a new one and send it out because the actual items that prove the agreement's legitimacy are allowed to be left out?

CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS :beer:
Further, I was explaining all this to a friend earlier as he's struggling a bit since losing his job recently. He's sent his creditors letters recently explaining this and working to get reduced payments and/or F&Fs. Can the creditors argue that this is acceptance of liability for the debt?

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

Evening, NID. Hope you're well.

Question for you regarding this judgement :

If the lender can leave out things like personal data, signatures etc from the CCAs they send back, what's stopping them all simply writing out brand new CCAs (like Lloyds did for me) and sending them out?

By now they should know all the information that needs to be on there and if one gets an agreement through like "cejsmith" did, how is he/she to know this wasn't typed up and printed off two days ago?

In other words, the actual CCA may not exist or may be invalid but by the sounds of things they can just make up a new one and send it out because the actual items that prove the agreement's legitimacy are allowed to be left out?

CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS :beer:
Further, I was explaining all this to a friend earlier as he's struggling a bit since losing his job recently. He's sent his creditors letters recently explaining this and working to get reduced payments and/or F&Fs. Can the creditors argue that this is acceptance of liability for the debt?

Hiya matey :beer:

What you mention is debatable in itself and a very contentious issue. The policy is they can send what is known as a true copy of the original which pretty much means they can construct it using the same terms in place at the time you took the account (i.e. a blanket version of the CCA from the time). However, the only real way to see an exact photocopy of your original is by SAR or CPR31.16 disclosure demand via court.

Even then there is no guarantee they will produce it - so to answer your question, yes lenders do make them and send unlawful copies but then you simply query it cos you'll know (roughly) if it's right or wrong (best thing to check is the charges cos older accounts was £28+ for missed payments etc and newer agreements say £12 or similar).....this is where they seem to mess up, sending a newer version of terms (or CCA) for an older account in which case you'd be right to assume they cannot locate the original document so you then SAR them. See where i'm coming from now...?

Regards to your mate, offering any payment is naturally acknowledging the debt! If this is what he wants to do then its best to send this letter here (#4) as that outlines that if they agree they will remove all derogatory data - assuming he wants to acknowledge the debt of course...

Remember agreeing verbally means nothing - he will pay and they will not remove the default so he must get it in writing! Use the letter above to see what I mean.

captainhaggis

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya matey :beer:

What you mention is debatable in itself and a very contentious issue. The policy is they can send what is known as a true copy of the original which pretty much means they can construct it using the same terms in place at the time you took the account (i.e. a blanket version of the CCA from the time). However, the only real way to see an exact photocopy of your original is by SAR or CPR31.16 disclosure demand via court.

Even then there is no guarantee they will produce it - so to answer your question, yes lenders do make them and send unlawful copies but then you simply query it cos you'll know (roughly) if it's right or wrong (best thing to check is the charges cos older accounts was £28+ for missed payments etc and newer agreements say £12 or similar).....this is where they seem to mess up, sending a newer version of terms (or CCA) for an older account in which case you'd be right to assume they cannot locate the original document so you then SAR them. See where i'm coming from now...?

Regards to your mate, offering any payment is naturally acknowledging the debt! If this is what he wants to do then its best to send this letter here (#4) as that outlines that if they agree they will remove all derogatory data - assuming he wants to acknowledge the debt of course...

Remember agreeing verbally means nothing - he will pay and they will not remove the default so he must get it in writing! Use the letter above to see what I mean.

Hi fella!

All very interesting stuff. Seems like a really daft rule regarding them being able to miss things out. Sounds like a rule designed to protect them in the event of their having misplaced the original CCA.

The SAR will cost a tenner but that means they'll send you everything they have on you (or should). I guess court is the next step if they still don't provide a copy of the original CCA.

By the looks of things though most people who have posted their CCAs seem to have been sent the originals, with signatures.

Regarding my mate, he's already sent some !!!!!! but I think one of them has come back rejected. He's accepted another couple. He wants to do the CCA route for the rejected one. He wrote to them and they replied to him in writing - is that enough for him to forget the CCA thing or regardless of what's gone on between taking out the account and now, does not having a valid CCA over-rule anything else ? :A

Oh, and may I ask, I know you said you'd had 50 (wow!!) inaccurate defaults removed from your file, but have you personally managed to have debts declared unenforceable via these methods? If so, which lenders? Just out of interest - and curiosity!

Goodtimesahead

Not much you can do to be honest. They are right that a default can remain cos in essence you did default. Its one of those that to get it removed may mean proving assignment and the actual issuance of the default but this may involve court etc....

Can you confirm, you paid the whole balance in 2007 to 1st Credit, and your credit file shows a satisfied default or are you saying there is a part satisfied and a part outstanding?

Please confirm and i'll be able to help better.....

Looking at my Equifax file

Status = Settled
Current Balance = £ 0
Default Balance = £2600

Basically I paid £700 to stop any further action as a settlement and I thought that would be it, they haven't been in touch for since 2007 but I'm left with the default with another 4 years to run! Obviously if I had had the knowledge I have now, I would have negotiated a full & final settlement including removal of the default and the default balance reset to £0 as part of the deal.

Will I get anywhere asking Barclays to provide the original Goldfish CCA ? How about Deed of assignment, I don't think 1st Credit have one, should I do a CCA to Barclays and see what happens or just SAR them to see what's in the files.

I was wondering if Barclays come back unable to provide find any data and therefore they I could ask the CRA's to remove the data, as Barclays may confirm that with the CRA's?

Can Barclays reply saying its got nothing to do with them anymore as 1st Credit are showing as the legal owner of the data entry on mycredit files?

Any further help, suggested letters etc would be great Many thanks

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

Hi fella!

All very interesting stuff. Seems like a really daft rule regarding them being able to miss things out. Sounds like a rule designed to protect them in the event of their having misplaced the original CCA.

The SAR will cost a tenner but that means they'll send you everything they have on you (or should). I guess court is the next step if they still don't provide a copy of the original CCA.

By the looks of things though most people who have posted their CCAs seem to have been sent the originals, with signatures.

Regarding my mate, he's already sent some !!!!!! but I think one of them has come back rejected. He's accepted another couple. He wants to do the CCA route for the rejected one. He wrote to them and they replied to him in writing - is that enough for him to forget the CCA thing or regardless of what's gone on between taking out the account and now, does not having a valid CCA over-rule anything else ? :A

Oh, and may I ask, I know you said you'd had 50 (wow!!) inaccurate defaults removed from your file, but have you personally managed to have debts declared unenforceable via these methods? If so, which lenders? Just out of interest - and curiosity!

Hiya

I am sure Fermi has the actual text that explains the tue copy legalities but I can't be arsed looking for it through my 10,000 bookmarks (sorry lol).....

Yea, usually if the lender starts spouting they will defend any action and they are sending a true copy etc then its a good sign they aint got the original so pursue CCA Request etc - obviously only if you're happy to take the risk of ruining your credit file....

So he's had a couple of F&F's accepted? - but will they leave the default on - if so, tell him to save his cash and don't pay! Don't get too concerned about the CCA route and Statute Barred. They are separate issues. So even though he asks for a CCA - the debt can still be statute barred after 6yrs cos he is asking them to prove the debt is lawful (and his).... but yea, doing CCA changes nothing in the greater scheme of things....

I have personally had to fight 50 - yes. ID Fraud meant they were in my name. I couldn't prove otherwise so I fought them - I fought them all and won them all (a court threat usually works wonders when you know you're right and threaten Libel and Losses)

But regards to your specific question, look at the old thread Sutton Default removal and you'll see the defaults there i've got removed for people - and yes, i'm always helping people get debts made unenforceable. Several on here as well (this thread)! Have you missed them?

lol

Basically, if the lender cannot provide a CCA then you tell them it's unenforceable.... They get no say in it unless they can prove it is in which case they send a copy of the original CCA to shut you up - luckily i've not experienced that yet.

So in answer to your question, yes i've had defaults removed and debts made unenforceable and right now on How to get back on the credit ladder thread, i'm in a right old fight with Crappy1 - take a read and enjoy them sweating

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

Looking at my Equifax file

Status = Settled
Current Balance = £ 0
Default Balance = £2600

Basically I paid £700 to stop any further action as a settlement and I thought that would be it, they haven't been in touch for since 2007 but I'm left with the default with another 4 years to run! Obviously if I had had the knowledge I have now, I would have negotiated a full & final settlement including removal of the default and the default balance reset to £0 as part of the deal.

Will I get anywhere asking Barclays to provide the original Goldfish CCA ? How about Deed of assignment, I don't think 1st Credit have one, should I do a CCA to Barclays and see what happens or just SAR them to see what's in the files.

I was wondering if Barclays come back unable to provide find any data and therefore they I could ask the CRA's to remove the data, as Barclays may confirm that with the CRA's?

Can Barclays reply saying its got nothing to do with them anymore as 1st Credit are showing as the legal owner of the data entry on mycredit files?

Any further help, suggested letters etc would be great Many thanks

Ok so this means that they registered the default for £2600 but its settled (which is half ok). The only thing you can do now is fight for proof of assigment and default.

Send the following to the DCA (whoevers name appears on your credit file):

Request for proof of Default

Dear Sirs,

Account No:

After recently obtaining a copy of my Credit File from the Credit Reference Agencies, I am concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against an alleged account I held with you.

Further to this, I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit. Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 cheque to cover the statutory fee.

2. Please also supply me with a signed, true certified copy of the original default notice.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

I would request that this data is provided to me within the next 14 days. If you are unable to provide this data then I require all adverse information to be removed completely, including any defaults that may have been applied. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

Goodtimesahead

Ok so this means that they registered the default for £2600 but its settled (which is half ok). The only thing you can do now is fight for proof of assigment and default.

Send the following to the DCA (whoevers name appears on your credit file):


NID Thanks very much for that, could they come back and say as I admitted the debt by way of settlement back in 2007, therefore they don't have to comply with my request?

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

NID Thanks very much for that, could they come back and say as I admitted the debt by way of settlement back in 2007, therefore they don't have to comply with my request?

This has no impact on requesting CCA and so go for it You're in essence trying to get them to prove that they followed process when issuing the default - the agreement is just for the fun of it but they won't have that either lol...