Unenforceability & Template Letters

Totally_indebt

NID - thanks for your responses here.

With regards to the Prescribed Terms, if I haven't signed the agreement, isn't this in itself an issue of unenforceability?

Sorry - I just thought that somewhere a signature is definitely required to ensure enforceability.
Thanks
:beer:

never-in-doubt

Totally_indebt wrote: »

NID - thanks for your responses here.

With regards to the Prescribed Terms, if I haven't signed the agreement, isn't this in itself an issue of unenforceability?

Sorry - I just thought that somewhere a signature is definitely required to ensure enforceability.
Thanks
:beer:

Yes of course a signature is necessary to enofrce the debt, but in the case of a 'true copy', they do not need to provide the signed copy so unless they say they have not got one, you have to assume at some point they will have it.....

You should appeal using the dispute letter with the lack of signature as failing the CCA.... :beer:

Wispa1

Hi, Can anyone let me know where you can find a copy of an enforceable & unenforceable credit agreement on the site please. Its just so I know what things to look out for. I have tried but can't seem to find any. Thanks in advance :rolleyes:

never-in-doubt

Wispa1 wrote: »

Hi, Can anyone let me know where you can find a copy of an enforceable & unenforceable credit agreement on the site please. Its just so I know what things to look out for. I have tried but can't seem to find any. Thanks in advance :rolleyes:

Look at page 1 and you'll see the prescribed terms which make up enforceability and non enforceability!

There are too many versions flying about to specifically request one - you'll know if its unenforceable as the prescribed terms will not be present. If something looks amiss then send the dispute/s.10 letter from page 1 and try your luck!

For the lender to then enforce it, they would have to send a copy of your original agreement in which case you'd know one way or the other then!

catpaws99

NID it's unsecured, so am going to try sending the letter on p1 and see what happens next:)

moo_cow

just a quick question here. hope i'm posting in the right place. I have been paying a company for the last 10 months for a catalogue debt they bought. The debt was originally for around 2.5k. The catalogue company suggested we transfer it to their sister company where we could have reduced payments as it would stop monthly interest being added so we agreed. We never actually signed the credit agreement. I still have it! Anyway, they continued to transfer it anyway and the whole set up was a muddle. needless to say we didn't pay for a couple of months as we were confused by the whole thing. Then we sent a couple of payments altogether as we were being threatened. The account was still one month in arrears. next thing is after just 4-5 months of this account changing over to their sister company they sold the debt on and we were being asked for over 4k.!!!
we've kept paying this company they sold it to for the last 10 months and have paid over 1k off the debt. However, reading the various threads on these boards I decided to ask for a copy of the credit agreement over the phone (as I know they can't possibly have one). got the third degree from them but they said they will ask some other department for it. Person on the phone sounded a bit 'irked' that i'd asked for it. I don't dispute owing money because I do.simple as that. But I don't see why I should owe 3k when by now my balance should only be half of that. basically what i'm asking is, is it too late to challenge this or do I actually have any rights regarding this. I feel very tricked by the catalogue company as they sold this very quickly after only a few months and after hiking the balance up astronomically.
any help very very appreciated.

never-in-doubt

moo_cow wrote: »

just a quick question here. hope i'm posting in the right place. I have been paying a company for the last 10 months for a catalogue debt they bought. The debt was originally for around 2.5k. The catalogue company suggested we transfer it to their sister company where we could have reduced payments as it would stop monthly interest being added so we agreed. We never actually signed the credit agreement. I still have it! Anyway, they continued to transfer it anyway and the whole set up was a muddle. needless to say we didn't pay for a couple of months as we were confused by the whole thing. Then we sent a couple of payments altogether as we were being threatened. The account was still one month in arrears. next thing is after just 4-5 months of this account changing over to their sister company they sold the debt on and we were being asked for over 4k.!!!
we've kept paying this company they sold it to for the last 10 months and have paid over 1k off the debt. However, reading the various threads on these boards I decided to ask for a copy of the credit agreement over the phone (as I know they can't possibly have one). got the third degree from them but they said they will ask some other department for it. Person on the phone sounded a bit 'irked' that i'd asked for it. I don't dispute owing money because I do.simple as that. But I don't see why I should owe 3k when by now my balance should only be half of that. basically what i'm asking is, is it too late to challenge this or do I actually have any rights regarding this. I feel very tricked by the catalogue company as they sold this very quickly after only a few months and after hiking the balance up astronomically.
any help very very appreciated.

First rule here - do not speak to these parasites on the phone! You must learn to do things in writing....

They cannot deal with your request lawfully, as you have not; a) Paid the statutory £1 fee & b) Requested it formally in writing.

So, go to page 1 and send the CCA request letter to the new owner of the debt (whoever you are paying) with the £1 fee.

Have you already been defaulted, i.e. is a default registered against your name on your credit file? If so then assuming they cannot provide the CCA then you must cease paying and if you've not been defaulted then do you want to risk ruining your credit score because of this (i.e. they may default you)....

So to clarify, send the CCA Request letter from page 1.

CeeBeeDeeBee

Hi Never In Doubt, I saw a mention to overdrafts earlier, are they also covered by this bit of the CCA74 and therefore can be disputed by the same process?

moo_cow

First rule here - do not speak to these parasites on the phone! You must learn to do things in writing....


oh dear! I consider myself well and truly told off (lol). I was on the phone with them as they were threatening me over a 3 day late payment and demanding the whole balance. I'm sending the formal request today with the £1. Something i've noticed is someone saying they do not have to send you a copy of the signed agreement. But could basically send a blank copy. This i'm a little confused about. Because I know there's no signed agreement as I have it still, at home, unsigned. If they send an unsigned copy where would this leave us with regards to the next step?
I have no idea if we've been defaulted. I honestly can't remember. With regard to my credit score, it's shot to pieces anyway. The recession has hit us like a ton of bricks and we have already been sent at least 3 default notices on other things so that i'm not worried about. I will never ever have credit again. It's been a hard lesson and one well learned.
BTW i'm supposed to be making another payment next week, should I honour that or hold back until they send me the copy of the credit agreement?

fermi

CeeBeeDeeBee wrote: »

I saw a mention to overdrafts earlier, are they also covered by this bit of the CCA74 and therefore can be disputed by the same process?

Bank overdrafts are exempt form having an executed CCA that you can request, subject to the conditions below.

Quote from the OFT....

1.4 What is covered by the s74 determination?

A determination under s74(3) was made by the OFT with effect from 1 February 1990. It applies to d-c agreements enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a ‘bank’ as defined in the Bankers’ Books Evidence Act 1879, provided that certain conditions are satisfied – see Q1.5.

A separate determination was made in respect of certain agreements connected with the death of a person.

Copies of the determinations may be obtained from the OFT.

Agreements covered by a s74(3) determination, and satisfying the relevant conditions, are exempt from most Part V rules including s61(1) on execution.

However, the Agreements Regulations will apply to any document embodying such an agreement, and to any term expressed in writing – see Q1.2.

1.5 Are all bank overdrafts exempt?

The s74 determination in respect of bank overdrafts (see Q1.4) applies subject to the following conditions:

• the creditor must inform the OFT in writing of his general intention to enter into such agreements;
• the debtor must be informed, at or before the time an agreement is concluded, of the following:

o the credit limit (if any)
o the annual rate of interest and any charges applicable, and the conditions under which these may be varied
o the procedure for terminating the agreement;

• the above information must be confirmed in writing.

Furthermore, where a debtor overdraws a current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor, and the account remains overdrawn for more than three months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than seven days after the end of that period of the annual rate of interest and any charges applicable.