Can OS be ethical?

melancholly

just wanted to say i think the webiste in the OP is http://www.ethiscore.org/
i couldn't get anything to load with https://www.ethiscore.com (but it could be a firefox thing)

off to do some interesting reading!

bluemoon_3

I'm heartened by how often the subject of ethical shopping comes up on the OS board - and I do think it's a subject that's important to many of the posters here.

I've found that my food bill has remained fairly steady over the last year, but because of making changes to a more OS way of living, it's meant I can afford to choose more and more ethical goods for the same amount of money. At present, we're both vegan, and we get an organic veg box that is as local as I can find. I choose fairtrade tea/coffee/chocolate 85% of the time. There are still changes I'd like to make - switching from the supermarkets being the main one - but that can't happen until I have a car, which is a trade-off in itself, isn't it?

So, in answer to the title of this thread (can OS be ethical?) - I would say that it's not ethical by definition, but switching to an OS lifestyle can bring more ethical choices into a limited budget.

competitionscafe

melancholly wrote:

off to do some interesting reading!

Some more interesting reading here:
http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=leo+hickman&N=4294962824

http://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/0,,,00.html

pollys

A very interesting thread, I guess we do what is important to us. For the past few weeks I have avoided supermarket shopping and I have spent the same shopping locally ie health food shop, farmshop, corner shop and online at a reasonably local organic shop that delivers to my area on a wednesday.I have my milk delivered via the milkman. The difference has been in the types of food that we have eaten, everything has been made from scratch, no Heinz Baked beans at 85p a tin! from the corner shop, we made our own, not a bit like heinz but no complaints. I do confess to venturing into the supermarket today, an unexpected guest for tea (sons friend) and nothing planned for tea, we would have had egg on toast or something similar but 9 year old friends are more used to nuggets/burgers/fishfingers. I bought a pizza and some wedges, the children have eaten the pizza but mine have all commented that homemade is better. The wedges have been left, homemade wedges are never left. Interestingly friend has left the organic cloudy apple juice, mine have finished theirs. It's what you get used to, and I don't want to go back to the way we used to eat. I have just tried a "potato" wedge and they just don't taste of potato just the chemicals they toss them in to flavour them. They are also expensive, even on offer, it would have been much cheaper to peel a few potatoes, toss in olive oil and bake for 30 minutes. Today I learnt why I have enjoyed boycotting the supermarkets for the last few weeks, I won't be going back in a hurry.

I also have just looked into swopping to Ecotricity, it would cost just £26 more per year. I'm going ahead.

Just a babystep not a big stride, but gradually we are living in a way in which we feel comfortable.

I have found that by comparing like for like eg coffee with fairtrade coffee, individual items are more expensive, another eg is Flour and organic flour, but by changing the foods we eat and not buying as many convenience foods the food bill stays the same. I'm not sure this is nationwide, we are lucky in that we live close to Suma, Healthfood shops, local farm shop and a Fairtrade town.

That potato wedge has left a horrible taste in my mouth, and I used to love eating that very same product, looking forward to my organic delivery tomorrow to taste some real food.

Thanks for the links.

missk_ensington

Hi Ive just stumbled across this thread, and I think its great that so many people are considering the environment when they shop, however I've looked at these things when I've been shopping and found the price is too much-I can stretch one item or two, but not my whole shopping! I recently had two packs of lamb chops in my hand, normal and organic. One was £2.36 and the other £3.88- When you're trying to keeo your food bill under £30 max, how can you justify a £1.52 overspend on one meal? I usually buy 3, maybe 4r types of meat on my weekly shop, i.e, some mince, lamb, bit of steak, stweing steak, maybe a chicken... If I bought organic on all my meat, I'd be looking at putting an extra £8 or so on my bill!

What do other people do? I can't justify working hard in other area's, i.e searching for cheapest petrol, cooking every night not takeaways/convenience food, for one person on another thread using DIY tampons! Just to blow what you've saved on organic meat! And thats presuming its only the meat you're buying organic!

I considered buying a bit of organic veg, until I saw the price -£1.99 in morrisons for a tiny pack of 'mini carrots'!!! Sorry but Id rather have the loose carrots for 23p!

If i was a) rich and b) not a full time, working mum doing two jobs I'd be a lot more environmentally friendly, but Im not rich and don't have the time for growing carrots and trailing butchers for meat, then fruit shops, then supermarkets.

Where do you all find the time?!?!?

MrsTinks

I don't think you can ever say that organic will be cheaper than standard stuff from supermarkets... I get the organic fruit and veg delivered through the box scheme and this ends up saving me money because it stops one of my HUGE faults which is impulse buying... So for me this is saving money. The local butcher could probably be convinced to deliver my meat too if I asked but even then it's not a biggie stopping off.

Growing your own veg is fun, but with kids and jobs etc it isn't for everyone. You can however grow spuds easily in containers (big cheap plastic ones for £1ish each and some cheap compost), you could even just stick in any spuds you have that have started growing before you got round to eating them Stick in garlic wedges too that have started sprouting and a chilli plant for the kitchen windowsill... (easy to grow!) all are very low maintenance (if any other than an occational watering) and already you're on the path to growing your own A window box for salad and watercress and you'll have fresh greens

I made a consious choice about wanting to go more organic and accepted the additional costs but that doesn't mean I ONLY buy organic. Somethings are too expensive and others I just don't like. Thinking about it we actually eat less meat now than before but the quality of the veg is so much better that I don't think the OH has really noticed

Time? what's that?

missk_ensington

What is this vegetable box thing I keep reading about? Might give the spuds a go when I move house (only have a concrete tiny yard at mo, but moving to a big garden hopefully in the next 6 weeks!) I want a vegetable patch with carrots and spuds and whatever else I use regularly, does anyone know where I can get info on HOW to grow things? (i.e, the seasons and what materials I need?)

Also, does anyone know anything about chickens?! As in, having a couple in your gaden and getting their eggs?!! Where would I get a chicken from and how woul I look after it? What do they need? How much is a live chicken? Do they need vaccinating? d onbviously get them a pen thats safe and make sure they don't get bird flu! Only want one or two.

Loadsabob

Although...I have priced up my organic box a few times, based on prices for the same, organic, in Tesco (grr!), and found that the £7.50 box I get, delivered, would cost at least that from the supermarket organic, and I'm buying local!

Also, worth checking health food shop organic compared to supermarket organic - potatoes (local), half the price on HFS than the Egyptian ones (which I wouldn't give houseroom) in Tesco.

Also, our local farmers market, very cheap for veg and though not certified organic, they have signs by produce stressing "No sprays", which I'd consider a fine alternative to Soil Association registered veg.

But organic meat really does seem to be prohibitive in cost. I don't eat meat, but my boyfriend does, and though he's very keen to buy organic, he's living on a very limited income, and just can't do it. He'll always get organic sausages, and where possible organic bacon, but organic chicken is a crazy price. He's managed to stock up a couple of times on that and lamb when reduced in tesco, and their minced beef isn't so drastically more expensive than the non-organic. But in the main, their price difference is often double for the organic, and he just can't do it on his budget. One day he hopes to!

Great reading all your thoughts and expeiences still, it's very encouraging! I think a lot of us are doing really well in the organic stakes!

And lets remember that the ethic of OS isn't spend spend spend, it's closer to "Make do and mend!" - we're not all spending loads of our disposable income on all the latest gear and products, so in that respect we're more ethical than the natural spenders...!

missk_ensington

I saw an organic chicken and it was a fiver!!! Could buy 3 non-organic chickens for that! As for the mince, Id rather put my extra 30p towards getting it lean/good quality, than organic, cos organic doesn't neccessarily mean its lean or less fatty, it just means it was a happy cow :rotfl: !

bluemoon_3

missk_ensington wrote:

What is this vegetable box thing I keep reading about?

This is a link to the indexed collection on this subject:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=556220&postcount=4

There's quite a lot to go through, but you should get a good idea of what they're about and where to start looking. There's also some threads about keeping chickens.

Might give the spuds a go when I move house (only have a concrete tiny yard at mo, but moving to a big garden hopefully in the next 6 weeks!) I want a vegetable patch with carrots and spuds and whatever else I use regularly, does anyone know where I can get info on HOW to grow things? (i.e, the seasons and what materials I need?)

There are monthly threads on the OS board about growing your own - the April thread is here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=176194

There are a number of us trying it for the first time this year (including me!), so you'd be in good company. I've found the best way is just to jump in and give it a go. Some things will work, some things won't, but you'll be learning the whole time.

I found Alan Titchmarsh's first series of 'How to be a gardener' excellent for a complete novice, and I borrowed the book of the series from the library. I found it so helpful and it explains the basics so well, I asked for it for christmas and I refer to it all the time. I would highly recommend this book/series (it's been repeated a few times, so look out for it!), because he takes you through it right from the beginning! (One of the first chapters is called 'what is a plant?', lol).