Can OS be ethical?

joebloggs69

Hi guys I’m new to this OS stuff but I’ve been visiting the sight for a while now. I have to say I’m impressed with OS, it occurred to me the other day after I bought a whole chicken for 99p – it served 3 people and still had leftovers for a sandwich, then I realised that I could even put the carcass to good use as soup stock! I though “There must be a name for this ‘old fashioned’ way of running a house”, and bingo! Here we are!

Anyway, enough drivel. I wanted to share some of my thoughts with you on the subject of ethical/green living. Now I hate those well-to-do ‘fairtrade’ junkies, who are worse than Jehovah’s Witnesses for trying to convert you, so that’s not what I’m trying to do here. I’ve come to the logical extension of Martin’s philosophy of “They [corporations and such] are always screwing us, so it’s time to screw them back.”. That doesn’t necessarily mean staging sit-ins or releasing animals for laboratories, for me it simply means giving them as little of your money as possible! And I’m sure you guys will understand that language.

I’ve said before in another post that it seems to me that money saving (especially OS) and shopping ethically/green go hand in hand, I think for 2 reasons: 1) The well worn Reduce, Reuse, Recycle is a mantra of both schools, and 2) both groups have realised that we simply DON’T NEED the majority of rubbish they try to sell us, and we certainly don’t like paying extra for nicer packaging!

So what I would like to do is just lay out a few of the things I’d like to do in order to tackle the subject (and I’m sure many of you know more than me, I just wanted to get the ball rolling), and hopefully some of you might learn some interesting things, and I might learn some interesting things from you. I’ve discovered a couple of good sites at https://www.ethiscore.org and https://www.corporatecritic.com. Unfortunately these sites require paid membership but the former have about six free article on brands/produces to avoid, and the latter has a free search facility which gives any corporation an ‘ethical rating’. Here’s a brief overview of my situation:

I want to buy organic as much as possible. I have noticed that there are already threads on here regarding box schemes etc., which I’m going to be taking up in the next few weeks. I just wondered, how do you budget for organic i.e at what point do you draw the line between saving money and spending a little extra on organic food? I’d like to try and grow some of my own, but I only have room for a window box…I’ll see how it goes.

I want to avoid giving money to certain corporations. These include people like Mars (who own Uncle Bens, for example), Pepsico and Coca Cola (that’s Pepsi, Cola, Fanta, Kia Ora, Tropico – all gone!) and especially Nestle, these are just a few examples. Most of the time this doesn’t present a problem as, I’m sure you’ve already spotted, I don’t need most of this stuff anyway – they’re luxuries. But there are a few occasions when it’s a lot harder, and like organics, sometimes it’s a lot more expensive to buy ethical brands (after, the others are so cheap because they cut corners and exploit people, right?). One of my biggest problems is:

SUPERMARKETS! Pretty much all of the major supermarkets are evil (whooohar!), but the biggest culprit by far is ASDA, owned by Walmart – you know, the friendly American supermarket that sells guns and ammo, and refuses to let any staff join a union. Ethiscore, and most other ethical watchdogs, recommend the Co-op as the best of a bad bunch. I’ve never shopped in there, does anyone know if it is expensive – it’s generally the rule of thumb that the more expensive shops like Marks and Spencer and Waitrose are the more ethical ones. Interestingly, though, I searched for Netto on corporatecritic and it seems to have an even higher rating than Co-op, I can only assume it wasn’t on the Ethiscore list as it’s just not as popular as the rest.

Fairtrade stuff is generally not much more expensive than other products, and just as good. The only thing is that supermarkets have their own brand good, it’s just certified by the Fairtrad people – so back to the previous point, if I’m going to shop in supermarkets should I be buying own brand stuff, presumably they make even more money from this?

I, of course, don’t eat things that are over-farmed such as tiger prawns and swordfish. I would ideally like to buy organic meat and fish as this sort of kills 3 birds with one stone (if you’ll pardon the unethical expression!): it’s healthier for me, it’s more likely to be local, and the animals have a better life. But have you seen the PRICE!!! £11 pounds for one whole chicken!!! Most people recommend giving up meat all together, but I’m afraid that’s not going to happen any time soon – besides, you can make meat spread so far into the week!

In terms of finance I try to use banks with ethical policies such as Co-op, Triodos or Ecology Building Society. This is good news for us as Smile is the co ops internet arm, so we get bloody good rates AND a clear conscience. Ones to avoid are HSBC, Llyods and Barclays. They are guilty of financing such things as illegal deforestation and even arms dealing.

When it comes to energy and the like, I unfortunately don’t have much control over suppliers – I live above a shop (it’s a long story, I know the owner) and I’m unlikely to persuade him to switch anytime soon. If I could I would go for Ecotricity, who use renewable sources – they donate £15 to WWF when you sign up, and promise to match you current supplier in price. Of course there’s all the other stuff about saving energy but you guys already know all that (more than me, anyway!).

Then of course there is travel, which I have already spoken about in the Travel thread. Unfortunately this seem to be an area of contention between money saving and being ethical. Travel by air is dirt cheap in comparison to other forms such as rail, and is the fastest growing source of pollution. Also, in terms of private transport, I need to avoid ESSO and SHELL. Luckily I don’t have a car (loads of money saved!).

Well I’ll leave you guys with that for now. I’m not really sure what I expect from this post but I just really would like your views on the subject and wanted to get the ball rolling. I can always try and provide more information if you want any, and I’m sure many of you are way ahead of me! Any advice or thoughts are appreciated.


Cheers!
Joe

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Edited to correct ethiscore.com to ethiscore.org, thanks Melancolly

thriftlady_2

Hi Joe,
Ethical living is hard work!
As far as possible I try to use independent shops - farm shop for fruit and veg locally produced and seasonal ,and an excellent butcher.I use my local shop which is Tesco unfortunately for other stuff.To use my butcher and farmshop I have to drive my car and contribute to the hole in the ozone layer,but if I walk to my local Tesco I'm contributing to the profits of a vast business.There are pros and cons to every decision.

One bit of advice - stop buying 99p chickens! They surely must be battery-reared.Go for a free-range one once a month and as you say make the most of it.

joebloggs69

Thanks for the post thriftlady,

the 99p chicken was a one off really, it was on it's sell by date and reduced to clear! But I understand what you're saying.

I've come to the conclusion that I'll use Tesco home delivery for bulk stuff (at least I can use vouchers) and buy meat and veg/fruit elsewhere. The trouble is I've just moved to a new area so I'm still exploring the stores, and on top of that (I'm sure many people have had this problem) my parents would buy everything at a supermarket so I've never been to a butchers or fishmongers - I dont even know what to ask for! Is it alot more expensive?

As you say, it's quite simply impossible to live completely independent of these corporations, but we should do our best!

But I am concerned, though, that an organic box scheme AND buying from a butcher/fishmonger will push my budget through the roof.

Grumpysally

'Ethiscore, and most other ethical watchdogs, recommend the Co-op as the best of a bad bunch. I’ve never shopped in there, does anyone know if it is expensive'
Yes Joe it is more expensive than the rest of the supermarket chains. I buy some stuff there but when I try to do a 'big shop' I always end up spending at least a third more than I would at Morrisons or Asda.
I think it is really difficult to shop cheaply and ethically, and there's so many questions to ask. Like you say is it Ok to buy supermarket own brand Fair Trade products? Also is it ethically OK to buy fair trade when it's been reduced, better than not buying it at all I suppose.
I try and buy the right stuff, for example I always buy free range eggs. ( there was quite a long thread on this forum a while back about eggs and chickens ) and fair trade coffee.
I can't afford to buy organic meat but I use my local butcher where the meat is reared and slaughtered localy.
It's a huge topic and one that makes my head spin if I think about it for too long.
Alison

Trow

I would say that as far as ethics related to the environment go, buying local is more important than buying organic - buy from a decent small local supplier/producer and chances are the birds/animals are well looked after and everything hasn't been shppied at a huge cost to the enviroment.

I do what I can - but can't confess to being hardline about it.

BTW - Body Shop is now owned by L'Oreal - which again is half-owned by Nestle!! Scary.

Smashing_Blouse

The CO-OP used to be extremely over price a few years ago, but seems to be on par with most supermarkets now. They do however stock a wide range of Fair Trade items

VickyA_2

Trow wrote:

I would say that as far as ethics related to the environment go, buying local is more important than buying organic - buy from a decent small local supplier/producer and chances are the birds/animals are well looked after and everything hasn't been shppied at a huge cost to the enviroment.

This is definitely the case for me (with the exception of bananas and oranges), I try to buy everything sourced from as local to me as possible. Food miles adds so much to the pollution that the best organic veg from New Zealand isn't half as organic as it claims to be after the miles it's travelled to get to the UK supermarket shelves. I decided not to buy tomatoes the other day as the produce in Tesco was from Senegal. Like wise apples - they were either from New Zealand, USA or Chile. Not even from France!

You might have seen on the news the other day that the self sufficiency of this country for this year ended a few weeks ago.................. We are only self sufficient for one third of the year. I find that incredibly scary! :eek: What would we do if we all had to live through World War 2 again with rationing?

calleyw

VickyA wrote:

You might have seen on the news the other day that the self sufficiency of this country for this year ended a few weeks ago.................. We are only self sufficient for one third of the year. I find that incredibly scary! :eek: What would we do if we all had to live through World War 2 again with rationing?

That does not surprise me one little bit. My dad being and farmer and all. Only said the other day to me if that we had to go back to being self sufficient we would starve for at least two years. As that is how long it would take to get back to being mainly self sufficient. Let alone have enough land because it is all being sold off to build houses that no-one can afford.

My husband the other day was looking up imports and exports for the UK. An example was that we export the same amount as import of certain goods.

Problem is we are are to sophisticated for are own good. Must have things that have to travel halfway around the world.

If you can't buy organic buying local is the next best thing.

Yours

Calley

Trow

calleyw wrote:

If you can't buy organic buying local is the next best thing.

I would reverse that.

I would say if you can't buy local, buying organic is the next best thing.

Organic local would be the ideal. Local would be next, and then organic. The amount of toxins in the atmosphere caused by the transportation of 'organic' goods from one country to another many many miles away is an absolute travesty.

Hermia

I find it very hard to be ethical, but do my best. I live in the suburbs of London and we have 3 Tescos here and no other supermarkets or food shops (apart from a dreadful Londis corner shop). There is a Marks and Spencer a bus ride away, but obviously it's too expensive to do everyday shopping. Obviously there are no farm shops nearby as there is no land to farm on! The local Tescos have very little organic/ethical produce in as there isn't a culture of that in the area. I just try and do my best. I can't get organic fruit and veg very often, but I always buy free-range eggs and organic meat/fish.

I often go to the West Country on holiday and go self-catering. I always go absolutely mad when I see all the independent food shops and farm shops. I'm sure I always come home half a stone heavier because all the fresh produce is so yummy!

calleyw

Trow wrote:

I would reverse that.

I would say if you can't buy local, buying organic is the next best thing.

Organic local would be the ideal. Local would be next, and then organic. The amount of toxins in the atmosphere caused by the transportation of 'organic' goods from one country to another many many miles away is an absolute travesty.

I agree it just depends on what you can afford. Organic is pricey and local organic is going to be even pricey as they will be producing on a smaller scale. So overheads are going to be higher.

I once heard a story not sure if it was true. That tomatoes and carnations that are grown on the Isle of Wight are brought to the main land to be packaged and then taken back to be sold in stores on the island.

Yours


Calley