Halifax +1.1% (YoY -12.1%)

dopester

ad9898 wrote: »

I'd agree with that Cleaver, the general public are thick as pigs*it.

Many are, but Cleaver's claim that house prices at any level of affordability can be supported and even justified by 'love of property' is totally ridiculous.

ess0two

ad9898 wrote: »

Patience my little bull:D, give me chance to write an answer, which I have now given.

Seriously though like Cleaver posted,to some extent its normal service with buying yet at lower prices,at least in my area.

Bet,lol.... if you polled 100 people in the street and asked what quantative easing was,what would be the result and more importantly the response from differing age groups.

40+ plus would probably have the highest percentage understanding than 20-40 age group.

News wise whats gone on over the last 18mths has relatively been smoothed over by the press etc.

ad9898_3

Cleaver wrote: »

And that's great Ad. You've deemed that you want to almost buy outright because you want to own the house quickly and you've inferred that you don't want to deal with banks. All sounds sensible to me.

But remember that you're the minority. Most people will be happy with a 15-20% discount off peak ("houses? cheaper now than 3 or 4 years ago? I'll have that, they always go up generally anyway") and will see owing banks a lot of money as a very normal thing to do.

And it's that majority that sway things and influence the figures we love looking over.

On another note, the paper I'm trying to write for work is not getting done, but take that as compliment to your debating skills Ad.

Yep, I'd go with all that, but still transactions are very poor, I think there will probably be a ceiling to the price rise run soon, unless the banks start offering decent 90% loans again, which to be honest I don't think they can, the money for even 80k's worth of approvals doesn't seem to exist at current prices.

Cleaver

dopester wrote: »

Many are, but Cleaver's claim that house prices at any level of affordability can be supported and even justified by 'love of property' is totally ridiculous.

Well, firstly I didn't say 'any level of affordability'. I inferred that the recent rise is probably due to a whole generation of people who have never seen houses as cheap in their working life and are deciding to buy now. That's a very different thing. But I stand by the fact that this public sentiment is far more important, in many different ways, than looking at economic data.

And looking at the wider picture, why are the government and media so obsessed with house prices rising? Because the public love it and they know it. If the public didn't love it we wouldn't see the mass of government tools engineered to keep prices high or the feverish media and organisations involved in property continually trying to hype property. This isn't a chicken or egg situation: the government and media act as they do because the majority of the general public want it that way.

Mark my words, if we as a nation get over the obsession of owning and / or making money from property, prices might fall considerably. But until that happens, people will find means and ways of getting money to buy.

Considering all of my argument above, what other reasons can you think of that, during the worst recession for decades, house prices are, yet again, on the rise?

ad9898_3

Cleaver wrote: »

Considering all of my argument above, what other reasons can you think of that, during the worst recession for decades, house prices are, yet again, on the rise?

This is a very vexing question, 2+2 seems to equal 5 at the moment. With mortgage availability as it is with massive deposits required, there must be more people like your mate out there than any of us could have imagined.

System

I personally don't find it that hard to imagine that not everyone out there is motivated purely by money.

I think you bear types are so obsessed about £££'s that you don't think about the non-financial benefits of things.

Some people will gladly pay an few extra k now rather than wait another year or so because to them it's worth it.

dopester

Cleaver wrote: »

Mark my words, if we as a nation get over the obsession of owning and / or making money from property, prices might fall considerably. But until that happens, people will find means and ways of getting money to buy.

Considering all of my argument above, what other reasons can you think of that, during the worst recession for decades, house prices are, yet again, on the rise?

True to some extent. One couple I know bought in January, although their company has now seen a big drop off in work. Another couple in their late 20s, (brain-head blue-chip employees and very well paid) sold and actively seeking to trade up.

Let this market take the sucker money of those who've long been waiting to buy and think now is an opportunity because prices are 'cheaper' than before. Doesn't make them value. They are only going taking on nearly guaranteed future losses imo.

The property market is now even more illiquid. Your love seems to assume that credit-expansion can be magicked up from nowhere at zero cost, from people with savings such as myself.

dopester wrote: »

illiquid: An illiquid market has a low value of transactions and/or a small number of participants. Liquidity is the ability to trade quickly any amount at the market price with no additional cost. An illiquid market, therefore, is characterized by the possibility of a sudden rise/drop of a security’s price with modest trading volume.

Low interest rates for home-owners might be easing the pain and allowing some who've lost jobs to survive and pay mortgage on one income instead of two incomes.

Mortgage rescue schemes too. Delayed repossession policies by lenders. QE.

It does buy time, but the strain the system is under can't be maintained. There are severe contracting forces going on behind the scenes in the effort to stabilise the market. Many companies under the squeeze questioning how they are going to survive. Many weighed down with debt taken on to expand during the boom. Even those who own their property outright... the value of their home is determined by what property is selling for at the margins.

Cleaver

dopester wrote: »

Let this market take the sucker money of those who've long been waiting to buy and think now is an opportunity because prices are 'cheaper' than before. Doesn't make them value. They are only going taking on nearly guaranteed future losses imo.

Decent arguments well worded as normal Dopester. But your comment 'doesn't make them value' surely depends on your version of what constitutes 'value'?

Sorry to use the example again, but take my friend. He wants his own house. He sees one he likes at the cheapest it's been for many years and can easily afford it. He buys it and happily lives in it for a number of years.

Why is my friend a 'sucker'? He's been sensible: got a good education, good job, saved a big deposit. He is buying property at the cheapest it's been at for four or five years. Will probably enjoy the house and life in general.

For him, this is a perfect example of something being 'good value'. I.e., he is paying what he sees as a decent price for something he wants.

ad9898_3

I have to say dopesters posts are a joy to read (in a realistic way you understand), there seems to be a kind of strange force behind them that I can't put my finger on. I'd vote for him.

Cleaver

On a completely separate note, who are 'rewired' and 'rewired3' people that happily go about thanking everyone yet do not make a single post?

Give us your opinions our wirey friends. And is there a rewired2?