Is immigration good for the UK economy.

inspector_monkfish

Oh yes.
Have you been to Whitechapel in East London lately?

Its a lovely little quaint multi-cultural place.........where EVERYBODY looks like they are up to no good. And theres not an Englishman in sight !

heffsta

I am a South African and have been here for 4 and a half years now, first on Highly skilled migrant visa and now on a unmarried partner visa. I have not been able to claim any benefits and not for another two years either. I have worked hard, I dont send money back to SA either I am even having my Wedding in this country so I am spending alot of my money in this economy, I go out most weekends, I travel the UK, most people I know/work with don't spend anything on the economy. They never travel in the uk, all they do is complain how expensive everything is, how bad the weather here is.

Anyways I was going off on a tangent there, but my point is that if, like Wookster said above, you go through the proper route to immigrate here it is not an easy thing. I have also had my chest x-rayed twice at the airport(which I will put up with as it is to detect disease like TB).

I just get annoyed at the immigrants that give good immigrants a bad name as I have experienced hostility towards me before, however not as bad as it could I believe because I am white.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I work in the engineering dept of a top UK university. Whenever we advertise a post, whether it's for a funded PhD or postdoctoral research, 95% of the applications will be from India and China. Our academics will always go with whoever is best for the job, although it is a massive hassle arranging a work permit for a non-EU employee. I'm not sure what it's like for other scientific disciplines, but the real lack of high quality UK engineering graduates and young researchers is quite worrying IMO.

Have those who advocate the "slammed door" policy factored in how many UK nationals will be sent back here by countries who follow suit? I spent two years working in Europe and wouldn't like to think that future generations would be denied this opportunity.

mbga9pgf

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Have those who advocate the "slammed door" policy factored in how many UK nationals will be sent back here by countries who follow suit? I spent two years working in Europe and wouldn't like to think that future generations would be denied this opportunity.

I am engineer trained, to Masters level, and I agree, many of our lecturers whe had excellent reputations were foreign. Iran, china and one Italian.

I think there needs to be understanding here; I think there is nothing wrong with people coming and working, either UK citizens going to Europe or vce versa. But that should be on the equivalent of a work visa, not just pitching up to an open border. It isnt denying anything, its a grim realisation the system we currently have in place we can no longer afford, was vastly wasteful and easily taken advantage by the wrong sort (the wrong sort being mainly home grown may I add).

I think we need to close the doors to all those that come here with an intention to settle permanently, use our NHS and benefits system, whilst using some of the money saved to promote a working visa system for those with high skills. Could come in the form of first year discount to income tax. But may I make it quite clear; whilst individuals from abroad who pay their taxes all their life after moving here should have some form of benefits system after a determined time, no way should that amount exceed what they have paid into the system. You reach that limit, your last 500 quid paid into the system goes onto your flight back to where you came from. Not any different to what I would expect in any other country, NZ and Oz have complex points based systems and quotas, as does Canada and we all know about the american green card system.

inspector_monkfish

mbga9pgf wrote: »

I am engineer trained, to Masters level, and I agree, many of our lecturers whe had excellent reputations were foreign. Iran, china and one Italian.

I think there needs to be understanding here; I think there is nothing wrong with people coming and working, either UK citizens going to Europe or vce versa. But that should be on the equivalent of a work visa, not just pitching up to an open border. It isnt denying anything, its a grim realisation the system we currently have in place we can no longer afford, was vastly wasteful and easily taken advantage by the wrong sort (the wrong sort being mainly home grown may I add).

I think we need to close the doors to all those that come here with an intention to settle permanently, use our NHS and benefits system, whilst using some of the money saved to promote a working visa system for those with high skills. Could come in the form of first year discount to income tax. But may I make it quite clear; whilst individuals from abroad who pay their taxes all their life after moving here should have some form of benefits system after a determined time, no way should that amount exceed what they have paid into the system. You reach that limit, your last 500 quid paid into the system goes onto your flight back to where you came from. Not any different to what I would expect in any other country, NZ and Oz have complex points based systems and quotas, as does Canada and we all know about the american green card system.

spot on.
dont think anyone has a prob with hard working skilled people - its the benefit scrounging/system players that get on everyones nerves (oh, and the hand car wash gangs - where you reckon all those pound coins go to ?? - east european m@fia ??)

misskool

mbga9pgf wrote: »

I am engineer trained, to Masters level, and I agree, many of our lecturers whe had excellent reputations were foreign. Iran, china and one Italian.

I think there needs to be understanding here; I think there is nothing wrong with people coming and working, either UK citizens going to Europe or vce versa. But that should be on the equivalent of a work visa, not just pitching up to an open border. It isnt denying anything, its a grim realisation the system we currently have in place we can no longer afford, was vastly wasteful and easily taken advantage by the wrong sort (the wrong sort being mainly home grown may I add).

I think we need to close the doors to all those that come here with an intention to settle permanently, use our NHS and benefits system, whilst using some of the money saved to promote a working visa system for those with high skills. Could come in the form of first year discount to income tax. But may I make it quite clear; whilst individuals from abroad who pay their taxes all their life after moving here should have some form of benefits system after a determined time, no way should that amount exceed what they have paid into the system. You reach that limit, your last 500 quid paid into the system goes onto your flight back to where you came from. Not any different to what I would expect in any other country, NZ and Oz have complex points based systems and quotas, as does Canada and we all know about the american green card system.

Work visas exist for NON-EEU migrants. EU workers are a whole different kettle of fish

Does your predeterminate criteria for benefits only apply to immigrants or also to the citizens in the UK as well? I'd like to know what you would do to those that are on benefits, citizens of this country because they were born here.

I know many immigrants (myself included), who pay into a system that we will not benefit from. A lot of us are childless professional couples; the sort that continues to spend money while in a recession

mbga9pgf

Does your predeterminate criteria for benefits only apply to immigrants or also to the citizens in the UK as well? I know many immigrants (myself included), who pay into a system that we will not benefit from. A lot of us are childless professional couples; the sort that continues to spend money while in a recession

Well, IMO, it should do. But it will never come to that unfortunately. You need to recognise that as an immigrant, you come to the UK under our rules. Dont like them, dont come.

Unfortunately, we have lots and lots of lazy people who need to go to work. Until we sort these scroungers out, unfortunately I think immigration needs to take a back seat. Remember, unemployment is also about to spike massively due to graduates (not scroungers, young kids who have probably worked hard all their lives) from my own country unable to find work, placements or apprenticeships. Why should someone be allowed in on any work permit whilst we dont have enough employment for our own graduates?

My point from above would mean although it would have to be a formaility, I would change rules to insist those coming across from europe would require a work permit and entitled to 0 benefits.

woody01

Having read this, i see that many people use immigrants as a tool to do the 'jobs we hate'.
I simply don't think this is true!

Look at it like this.
An employer can pay an immigrant minimum wage per hour to clean a factory floor.
A native UK citizen, cannot live on a minimum wage in this country.

BUT THE IMMIGRANT CAN LIVE ON MINIMUM WAGE i hear you cry.
Of course they can, but in what state....a VERY poor one.

Immigration, whatever else it brings to, or deprives the country of, is starting to dictate the wage structure of unskilled labour.

Personally, EU Laws aside, i think it is an absolute disgrace that someone that is a non native UK citizen can be employed whereas the native UK people cannot.

I also think that anyone that hasn't paid into our welfare system should not be entitled to Health Care, Housing, Benefit funding, legal funding, schooling.
At least 3 years should pass before entitlement to any of these things.
Also, unless a certain standard of the english language is attained, these people should be excluded on that basis alone.
What good is a non english speaker going to be to anyone here?

THIS is the reason that immigration, on the ridiculous scale we see it at now, is a BAD thing for the UK as a whole.

mardatha wrote: »

I was a cleaning supervisor in charge of a very big office, a bank HQ. We had some nightmare workers ...all of them locals. They came in drunk, they took 3 nights a week off, they sat on phones all night or raked through the workers desks, & pilfered everything that wasn't nailed down.
Then we got the Poles. Who turned up every night, did what I asked, were polite, and SMILED. Culture shock for me ! So there's nobody to blame but ourselves. People would rather stay on the dole than take menial jobs as cleaners. Even though that meant paying their way in life and possibly studying at the same time to eventually better themselves.

Only yourself to blame there then.
You (or your bosses) need to take some lessons in interview techniques as you obviously employ unsuitable people.

heffsta wrote: »

I am a South African and have been here for 4 and a half years now, first on Highly skilled migrant visa and now on a unmarried partner visa. I have not been able to claim any benefits and not for another two years either. I have worked hard, I dont send money back to SA either I am even having my Wedding in this country so I am spending alot of my money in this economy, I go out most weekends, I travel the UK, most people I know/work with don't spend anything on the economy. They never travel in the uk, all they do is complain how expensive everything is, how bad the weather here is.

Anyways I was going off on a tangent there, but my point is that if, like Wookster said above, you go through the proper route to immigrate here it is not an easy thing. I have also had my chest x-rayed twice at the airport(which I will put up with as it is to detect disease like TB).

I just get annoyed at the immigrants that give good immigrants a bad name as I have experienced hostility towards me before, however not as bad as it could I believe because I am white.

I don't think the problem is with 'immigrants'.
The problem is with NON CONTRIBUTING immigrants.

bo_drinker

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

spot on.
dont think anyone has a prob with hard working skilled people - its the benefit scrounging/system players that get on everyones nerves (oh, and the hand car wash gangs - where you reckon all those pound coins go to ?? - east european m@fia ??)

I had to diversify my work this year and do something I did before, this involved a fair amount of driving/ travelling and I noticed there were a huge amount of hand car wash places set up, all Eastern Euro's. Another thing prob unrelated in any way was the number of pubs taken over by Chinese and now trading as restaurants.

Generali

Economic benefits migrants bring to the UK:

Skills (many migrants are highly skilled)
Motivated (most migrants are motivated to 'get on their bike' to try to make something of themselves)
Reduces wage inflation (increases competitiveness of the moved to country)

Economic 'disbenefits' (horrible word) migrants bring:

Pressure on infrastructure
Reduce wage inflation (reduce wages of locals)
Pressure on benefits system (if migrants move to take advantage of more generous foreign welfare systems)

The final problem can be solved quite simply - when I migrated to Australia I had to agree not to have any recourse to public funds personally for 2 years (I get emergency medical treatment and that's it). The Generalissimos get educated by the state but that's only (I believe) because Mrs Generali is Australian.

IIRC, the Tories tried to introduce something similar only for the new Law to fall foul of existing legislation. Well that's pretty easily fixed - draft the laws better.

Personally, I'm in favour of immigration as my reading of the economic literature is that there is usually a net positive benefit to the receiving country.

If I thought my wages were likely to be reduced as a result of immigration, I might think differently. However, all the research I've read has shown overwhelming economic benefits to the receiving nation overall.