Is immigration good for the UK economy.

mbga9pgf

Perhaps things would be different if people had the choice to do work like that (well) or quite literally starve?

bluey890

mardatha wrote: »

I was a cleaning supervisor in charge of a very big office, a bank HQ. We had some nightmare workers ...all of them locals. They came in drunk, they took 3 nights a week off, they sat on phones all night or raked through the workers desks, & pilfered everything that wasn't nailed down.
Then we got the Poles. Who turned up every night, did what I asked, were polite, and SMILED. Culture shock for me ! So there's nobody to blame but ourselves. People would rather stay on the dole than take menial jobs as cleaners. Even though that meant paying their way in life and possibly studying at the same time to eventually better themselves.

So we are now all paying for the original workers to be on the dole, for two sets of public services, whilst the overall tax take is unchanged.

It doesn't make financial sense to me.

julieq

If you don't like the way this country is going, you can always emigrate and become an immigrant somewhere else.

mbga9pgf

True, but I think I will stick around and watch what happens when those that dont contribute one jot to this country get the rudest awakening of their live.

The credit crunch is going to be very painful, but I have said all along it is the bitter medicine this country needs to get it back on track.

bo_drinker

mbga9pgf wrote: »

True, but I think I will stick around and watch what happens when those that dont contribute one jot to this country get the rudest awakening of their live.

The credit crunch is going to be very painful, but I have said all along it is the bitter medicine this country needs to get it back on track.

It will be a start but there is a long way to go.

mbga9pgf

True but did everyone expect it was going to be roses with postgrad degree educated individuals working for less than half the minimum wage in China and India? We had better come up with something pretty damn special to compete with that. The high tech industry that the UK will need will not require a rediculously bloated population dragging it back and similar to denmark, we should be going for the smaller, more highly qualified population model. Note that you either get on the bus or B*gger off; with the global economy heading where it is heading, there is no space for layabout hangers-on.

andygb

mbga9pgf wrote: »

True but did everyone expect it was going to be roses with postgrad degree educated individuals working for less than half the minimum wage in China and India? We had better come up with something pretty damn special to compete with that. The high tech industry that the UK will need will not require a rediculously bloated population dragging it back and similar to denmark, we should be going for the smaller, more highly qualified population model. Note that you either get on the bus or B*gger off; with the global economy heading where it is heading, there is no space for layabout hangers-on.

I totally agree that the population is "bloated", and that the infrastructure cannot cope, but this is all the more reason to "close the borders" so to speak. We then have to address the other problems regarding the benefits system, and look at the young people from certain social demographics, who have no intention of working. They want material goods, but they don't want to study or serve an "Apprenticeship" at any kind of work. You then have the young unmarried mothers with a brood of children, by different fathers, who have sidestepped the work ethic from day one. They have in fact been given benefits as an "option" for being irresponsible/lazy.
When I left school in 1975, I got a job, and stayed in it for 10 years, getting experience, and gradually, slowly moving up the ladder, all the while learning. There are an awful lot of young people who are not prepared to do that, believing that certain work is below them, or boring or uncool.

andygb

mardatha wrote: »

I was a cleaning supervisor in charge of a very big office, a bank HQ. We had some nightmare workers ...all of them locals. They came in drunk, they took 3 nights a week off, they sat on phones all night or raked through the workers desks, & pilfered everything that wasn't nailed down.
Then we got the Poles. Who turned up every night, did what I asked, were polite, and SMILED. Culture shock for me ! So there's nobody to blame but ourselves. People would rather stay on the dole than take menial jobs as cleaners. Even though that meant paying their way in life and possibly studying at the same time to eventually better themselves.

Sorry Mardatha, but I can only say, that people from all countries steal and cheat and are lazy. In Kent, we have problems with gangs of Romanians who carry out credit card fraud. Some of the jobs done by Polish and other East European builders have turned out to be a bit of a bodge (but you can't ask for your money back, because they have moved on).
If you go up to London, there are plenty of people of all nationalities working in the catering trade, and no matter where they come from, it is very rare to get a smile from them.
Employers employ cheap labour from abroad, because they know that they will not complain, they will work for lower wages, and be frightened to ask for time off, and they will come into work when they are ill and spread viruses (like Swine flu) around the workforce.

Wookster

mbga9pgf wrote: »

Once we have our ship in order, we start allowing in economic migrants in, but they must have a full health check, (including Hep B and HIV Aids Check) have no entitlement for benefits for 6 years and must either come with a job offer or have the financial backing to start up their own business.

We do already have those two in place - medical checks are pretty common (though not carried out 100%) on immigrants and those working (i.e. not asylum seekers) are not entitled to benefits until they have permanent residence (which can be 5-10 years depending on what visa they come to the UK on).

There is this notion that its easy to get into the UK. As a foreign national who has done it the legal route I can tell you, that is nonsense, it is actually really quite tough if you do it by the book. It seems that those who bend the rules and play the system get through a fair bit easier.

Onto immigration, there are both pros and cons. As someone who has worked at high levels in industry/ commerce here I can tell you that immigrants do provide an enormously valuable service and fill some gaping holes in UK labour supply. Industry (and several government departments e.g. the NHS) would be truly fcked without immigrant staff.

The downside to immigration is that it masks the appalling number of British citizens who can't be bothered to work. Those people need to lose all their benefits to instil the same work ethic that some of the immigrants coming to these shores seem to have. It all comes back to the Labour government not reforming the welfare state while the sun was shining.

Meadows

worbikeman wrote: »

No, because apart from all those factors just mentioned, generally speaking, immigrants send money home, thus removing it from (our) economy and dont contribute much in the way of tax or purchase of goods and services whilst here.

:T:T:T :T:T:T Spot on :T:T:T :T:T