Gave dog back to breeder, refusing to give money back

Mojisola

mattuk80 wrote: »

She told my mum that she couldn't afford to give her any money back until she re-sells the dog.

Today she got a phone call from the breeders mobile (who we thought was on holiday), it wasn't the breeder but her friend who we believe still has the dog. My mum spoke to her and the friend said the breeder doesn't have time to sell the dog and my mum won't be getting any money back.

Whatever breeders normally do, isn't this the real problem - the story has changed. If the OP's Mum had been told from the beginning that there was no way she would be getting her money, she may not have handed the puppy back.

If there was a contract that said no money would be returned, surely the OP's Mum should have been told this when she phoned up?

lesley1960

I would be very surprised if the breeder is legally bound to refund money on a returned puppy( unless there were health problems,and then i believe there is a limited time for this ).

lowis

lesley1960 wrote: »

I would be very surprised if the breeder is legally bound to refund money on a returned puppy( unless there were health problems,and then i believe there is a limited time for this ).

but the breeder said they would refund the money if they could sell the dog on, but then the breeder got a friend to call the OP's mum to inform her that actually they didn't have time to sell the dog on so tough luck basically. this changes things a bit surely? they should have have a 'no refund' policy set in stone, on a contract (maybe the do, but this is not clear yet), and wavered between a refund and then no refund.

Sami_Bee

Assuming it is a small breeder who does it as a hobby more than a business, I doubt there is anything she can do.
It is a standard thing in my experience that breeders will accept a dog back but not refund anything unless the dog is 'faulty'
We used to be 'hobby' breeders and only once had a dog returned to us and we didn't return any money as we then had to feed, house and train the pup until we could find a new buyer(after we had stopped advertising the pups).
Unless you had something in writting to say she would get some money back after the breeder re-sold I doubt there is anything you can do :undecided

roguebrogue

Poor pup is all I can think.

EDIT: Not that I blame your mum. It's just the first thing I thought.

KellyWelly

I'm a small time 'hobby' breeder (never heard that term before!), I've never had a pup returned to me but if I did, I would only refund if there was a problem with the puppy (health problem, for example). As it is, there isn't really much of a profit in the puppies anyway - and any 'profit' usually doesn't cover the pure time and effort you put in. I do not expect to make much money over my costs at all by the time they all leave, and it certainly doesn't work out at minimum wage for the time put in.

I have a litter of pups here at the moment that all have homes to go to, breeding them has cost me over £1500 in expenses so far. Travelling to the stud, hotel fees, vet fees, whelping equipment, lots and lots and lots of extra food, cleaning supplies, registration fees, pedigree certificates, worming...the list goes on. I still have to vaccinate them and have their health checks before they leave which will probably be another £200. I've had six weeks of cleaning up poo and wee from 8 puppies, feeding them, playing with them, there is a LOT of work that goes into breeding a litter, the mother will not do it all by herself.

This breeder is probably feeling more than a little bit miffed that she chose your mum to have one of her puppies all this time ago, possibly over another person who would have been better suited, was about to go on a holiday (much needed I would imagine, it's very stressful) and your mother phones up because she changed her mind and not only wants you to have the puppy back but now expects you to cough up £500 that she may well already have changed into Euros! The breeder now has to find a temporary home at short notice, then advertise an older pup that was returned (which will make it less attractive and demand a lower price) all the while feeding, walking, training and socialising the puppy. How much do you and your mother value her time and effort? Do you expect her to take a hit on the price of the puppy AND spend X weeks doing all the above? That's pretty unreasonable in my opinion. There was nothing wrong with the puppy.

mattuk80

KellyWelly wrote: »

I'm a small time 'hobby' breeder (never heard that term before!), I've never had a pup returned to me but if I did, I would only refund if there was a problem with the puppy (health problem, for example). As it is, there isn't really much of a profit in the puppies anyway - and any 'profit' usually doesn't cover the pure time and effort you put in. I do not expect to make much money over my costs at all by the time they all leave, and it certainly doesn't work out at minimum wage for the time put in.

I have a litter of pups here at the moment that all have homes to go to, breeding them has cost me over £1500 in expenses so far. Travelling to the stud, hotel fees, vet fees, whelping equipment, lots and lots and lots of extra food, cleaning supplies, registration fees, pedigree certificates, worming...the list goes on. I still have to vaccinate them and have their health checks before they leave which will probably be another £200. I've had six weeks of cleaning up poo and wee from 8 puppies, feeding them, playing with them, there is a LOT of work that goes into breeding a litter, the mother will not do it all by herself.

This breeder is probably feeling more than a little bit miffed that she chose your mum to have one of her puppies all this time ago, possibly over another person who would have been better suited, was about to go on a holiday (much needed I would imagine, it's very stressful) and your mother phones up because she changed her mind and not only wants you to have the puppy back but now expects you to cough up £500 that she may well already have changed into Euros! The breeder now has to find a temporary home at short notice, then advertise an older pup that was returned (which will make it less attractive and demand a lower price) all the while feeding, walking, training and socialising the puppy. How much do you and your mother value her time and effort? Do you expect her to take a hit on the price of the puppy AND spend X weeks doing all the above? That's pretty unreasonable in my opinion. There was nothing wrong with the puppy.

Thanks kellyWelly, some interesting points. However I would say my mum isn't asking for the full amount, she's asked for half. Fair enough if she can't sell the puppy straight away and it takes her a while, I appreciate she needs to be compensated for her inconvenience. But it seems she isn't going to even try to sell the pup. Her friend rang today and said the breeder won't have time to sell her. She shouldn't say on Thursday "I can't give you any money back until I sell her" and then suddenly change this to "I don't have time to sell her". That isn't fair. As far as I'm concerned my mother has a legal case to request some of the money back.

Poet 123 - "The contract was complete when the transaction was concluded. The fact that your mother returned the dog (whether that was part of an initial agreement or not) does not mean the breeder is under any legal obligation to return any part of the money, unless that was specifically written into the contract, which is unlikely. I would imagine this is not an uncommon occurrence, and the law is on the side of the breeder here I am afraid."

Yes the contract was concluded when my mother received the puppy however a new verbal contract has been agreed. My mother has made an invitation to treat by enquiring about the return of the dog to the breeder. The breeder has stated she can accept the dog back, the terms being she cannot make full (or partial refund) until she resells the dog (that's the offer), the return of the dog by my mother to the breeder (the acceptance of the offer). The Breeder has now reneged on that agreement by changing her terms, and giving no legal consideration to my mother. That I believe is wrong. I appreciate that there are breeders and dog lovers on this site who disagree and feel my mum shouldn't have got the puppy in the first place and I agree it was a stupid mistake. However that cannot be changed, it doesn't stop the fact that I feel my mum should have some of that money she paid returned.

provista_2

When we bought our pup from a breeder we had to sign a contract saying if we ever got to a staged where we no longer wanted her she HAD to go back to the breeder and no money would be returned, if there had been any medical problems then money would be returned.

lowis

if your mum had gone to a rescue then she wouldn't be having any of these problems...shame she chose a pedigree really.

i hope she does get some money back - as you state, the breeder entered into a new verbal contract when your mother returned the dog. would your mother have returned the dog if the breeder had said 'no money back'? or would she have tried to sell it on her self? poor puppy, but breeding dogs turns them into products and commodities unfortunately, and you have to then view the situation as if you had purchased an item from a shop. so sad.

Poppy9

What would your mother have done with the dog if the breeder had told her she wouldn't refund?

Have you thought that the breeder said she would refund sometime in the future to make sure the dog was returned to her instead of being sold on or dumped?