Destructive teen

Knub

I'm a 25 year old male. When I was a teenager I was on the whole pretty good I would say, although I had my moments. I never physically/verbally abused my parents OUT OF RESPECT and I had a job whilst at college. Pocket money? Stopped when I was 14, I was expected to help out around the house/chores/assist where needed before I was rewarded with a bit of cash.

I cannot believe the premeditated vile way he decided to "teach you a lesson". He's 17 years old for gods sake, who does he think he is treating his own mother like that?

We don't know the situation yet, but if he is not in education, he needs to get a full time job and start paying his way. Don't use the "credit crunch" and economic times as an excuse, there are jobs - just if you want to do them or not is another story. There is always McDonalds, Factory Work, etc. A Job is a job.

You need to stop being a soft touch and "Man up" with him in my opinion. Get tough, no "allowance", don't do his washing, don't clean his room, don't cook his food - you get the picture.

Sounds to me like hes got it easy and being a single Mum he has manipulated you and now has his own mother fearing for her saftey because of him. Is this normal? Is this acceptable? We all know the answer don't we?

You said you want your son back, if you don't step up now you will lose him and like you said - things will go past a point of no return.It hurts now, but it will hurt a damn sight more in the future if you do not act fast. Somtimes you have to take pain & sacrifice a lot to achieve a desired goal, this is one of those times.It will hurt you more than him but its for the greater good and your own well being.

Get tough, act soon and good luck!

MrsE_2

OP do you have any idea why he's beahaving like this?

Are there any reasons you can think of?

Or is he just a being a XXXXXXX?

Knub

MrsE wrote: »

OP do you have any idea why he's beahaving like this?

Are there any reasons you can think of?

Or is he just a being a XXXXXXX?

I did think of this too, sudden changes of mood can vary. Being exposed to drink and drugs at that age could be pretty much spot on.

The other reason I can think of is he is at the stage of being a kid/being a man. It's just he only knows how to act like the former.

Frustratedmother

Thanks everyone for your replies and especially thanks to those who haven't assumed I don't set any boundaries or otherwise judged me.

To address some of the queries –

· yes, it’s just the 2 of us.
· he sat GCSEs in June, turns 17 this week - is looking for a part time job but hasn’t got one yet.
· Sanctions are for breaking rules or not doing his chores – he is expected to do a couple of household tasks every day or for leaving the iron switched on – he also irons his own clothes apart from school uniforms which I do. Sanctions tend to be things like losing his playstation or his computer access for a period.
· on this occasion the rule that was broken was leaving the front door unlocked overnight on Thursday and having friends in the house while I was at work on Friday. I came home early and found a house full of young people and was sworn at and generally abused by him in front of them when I asked him to come and talk to me in another room.
· We do have rules and these are agreed and written down. He has been given extra privileges in the last year which have reciprocal responsibilities attached and we have also agreed what will happen in the event he doesn’t keep up his side of things. I always follow through on these agreed sanctions.
· he stayed at his dad’s as usual on Friday night and I told him that I would be taking his house key from him for a week and he would have to revert to the old arrangement of leaving the house with me in the mornings and spending the day at his dad’s – all agreed as in previous point. His dad does not work.
· It was when he returned from his dad’s on Saturday and told me I couldn’t do this and his dad wouldn’t let him go to his house that the incident occurred.
· His dad constantly undermines me to him. I left because of his dad’s alcoholism, lack of work ethic and general abusiveness when my son was 2 – he did not therefore witness any abuse but he is told about what a b*tch I am every week – the term his dad prefers is c*nt. I try not to reciprocate but have in recent months reacted sometimes when told that "dad and his girlfriend think you are wrong because…" by saying that dad and GF have no right to comment on anything that happens in our house and if he wants to live by their rules he'll need to do it in their house.
· My son is basically being told that it is ok to behave like this by his dad who then says that he is not welcome to live with him. He wants to retain control without any responsibility. I know I’m not dealing with this well or I wouldn’t be in the situation I currently face.
· I wouldn’t let him back in the house on Saturday night and he went to stay with my sister who let him in and then talked to him on Sunday. She told him he wasn’t to come home to me for a week as he had treated me so badly and needed to negotiate a stay with his dad - if he couldn’t get his dad to agree then he was to stay with her. His dad did let him stay so he is there. She also took him home to get clothes while I was out yesterday.
· I am at work today but will take time this evening to make some calls to the helplines some of you have been so kind in providing. I think we need outside help, some sort of family counselling, to get us back on track. I can’t give up on my son without doing everything in my power. I do wish I could take his dad out of the equation all together but I can't. How ironic that it was I who insisted on and had to facilitate them having contact 15 years ago because I thought it would be best for my child!

epsilondraconis

Sounds like your boy doesn't understand quite how good a mother you are.

Perhaps you should let him read through this thread?

Good luck, it sounds like you'll need it...

Knub

epsilondraconis wrote: »

Sounds like your boy doesn't understand quite how good a mother you are.

Perhaps you should let him read through this thread?

Good luck, it sounds like you'll need it...

Agreed. Good luck!

RedBern

agree with previous two posters - you seem to be doing all the right things - just not getting the right response. However, I'd suggest (if I can) that a big factor in the last episode was you confronting him when his mates were around... resulting in him having to play the 'big man' to you. Ask him, do his friends speak to their mothers in that tone? If yes, suggest he gets some new mates. Stay strong, and good luck

RAS

Frustratedmother wrote: »

To address some of the queries –

·Sanctions are for breaking rules or not doing his chores – he is expected to do a couple of household tasks every day or for leaving the iron switched on – he also irons his own clothes apart from school uniforms which I do. Sanctions tend to be things like losing his playstation or his computer access for a period.

Hi

Given his age, are these actaully appropriate sanctions any longer? he is nearly an adult now. And a lad doing his own ironing is pretty rare, I thought?

·on this occasion the rule that was broken was leaving the front door unlocked overnight on Thursday and having friends in the house while I was at work on Friday. I came home early and found a house full of young people and was sworn at and generally abused by him in front of them when I asked him to come and talk to me in another room.

I agree that no locking the front door is a problem, if that is his responsibility (last home?)

But at his age, why can he not have a limited number of friends in during the day as long as they do not drink, smoke or take drugs? And he has to ensure that the place is tidy and he cleans up after them - good training for house sharing in the future.

·he stayed at his dad’s as usual on Friday night and I told him that I would be taking his house key from him for a week and he would have to revert to the old arrangement of leaving the house with me in the mornings and spending the day at his dad’s – all agreed as in previous point. His dad does not work.

Why does a 17 year old have to stay at his dad's all day? He is old enough to work and would be better off playing football if he is not working.

·It was when he returned from his dad’s on Saturday and told me I couldn’t do this and his dad wouldn’t let him go to his house that the incident occurred.

He is feeling rejected by both parents at the moment and may not be able to see how to work out how to negoitate.

·His dad constantly undermines me to him. I left because of his dad’s alcoholism, lack of work ethic and general abusiveness when my son was 2 – he did not therefore witness any abuse but he is told about what a b*tch I am every week – the term his dad prefers is c*nt. I try not to reciprocate but have in recent months reacted sometimes when told that "dad and his girlfriend think you are wrong because…" by saying that dad and GF have no right to comment on anything that happens in our house and if he wants to live by their rules he'll need to do it in their house.

Fair enough in one sense but maybe sometime you need to explain why you have a particular rule in your house rather than just this is my rule?

·My son is basically being told that it is ok to behave like this by his dad who then says that he is not welcome to live with him. He wants to retain control without any responsibility. I know I’m not dealing with this well or I wouldn’t be in the situation I currently face.

Been there.

·I wouldn’t let him back in the house on Saturday night and he went to stay with my sister who let him in and then talked to him on Sunday. She told him he wasn’t to come home to me for a week as he had treated me so badly and needed to negotiate a stay with his dad - if he couldn’t get his dad to agree then he was to stay with her. His dad did let him stay so he is there. She also took him home to get clothes while I was out yesterday.

Maybe dad will be less keen to create that much disturbance in future as it has consequences for him and his GF?

·I am at work today but will take time this evening to make some calls to the helplines some of you have been so kind in providing. I think we need outside help, some sort of family counselling, to get us back on track. I can’t give up on my son without doing everything in my power. I do wish I could take his dad out of the equation all together but I can't. How ironic that it was I who insisted on and had to facilitate them having contact 15 years ago because I thought it would be best for my child!

Hmm. The problem is that if he had no contact, he would idolise his dad and the situation would be very little better if not worse.

At least this way he can see what dad does even if he cannot yet make the appropriate judgements about it.

Do you have any good male friends or family would can offer a counter influence?

As an OP mentioned, tackling him in front of his friends will have caused a huge loss of face and at his age being shwon up by mum is a no-no.

Is there anything he really wants to do that you could offer as an incentive for good behaviour?

And maybe part of what you have to explain to him is that you love him and want so much for him but that in order to give him what you have done so far, you had to do a lot of things to keep the roof over your heads and the food on the table. You appreciate that means that he may not have had everything he would like but you do the best you can.

Frustratedmother

Originally Posted by Frustratedmother
To address some of the queries –

·Sanctions are for breaking rules or not doing his chores – he is expected to do a couple of household tasks every day or for leaving the iron switched on – he also irons his own clothes apart from school uniforms which I do. Sanctions tend to be things like losing his playstation or his computer access for a period.

Hi

Given his age, are these actaully appropriate sanctions any longer? he is nearly an adult now. They are the sanctions that my son and I have agreed on. What other sanctions do you feel would be more appropriate?
And a lad doing his own ironing is pretty rare, I thought? He only irons his own things, never mine and it’s something he’s quite proud of. I thought it would enable him to be more independent and remember my own brothers ironing at the same age. It’s not something we row about either except when I come home to find he’s left the iron switched on which I feel is both dangerous and wasteful.

·on this occasion the rule that was broken was leaving the front door unlocked overnight on Thursday and having friends in the house while I was at work on Friday. I came home early and found a house full of young people and was sworn at and generally abused by him in front of them when I asked him to come and talk to me in another room.

I agree that no locking the front door is a problem, if that is his responsibility (last home?) He wants to stay up later than I can as he’s on school holidays and he smokes – not with my approval but that’s another story – so he will unlock the door to go out to smoke as I won’t allow it inside.

But at his age, why can he not have a limited number of friends in during the day as long as they do not drink, smoke or take drugs? And he has to ensure that the place is tidy and he cleans up after them - good training for house sharing in the future. They were smoking in the house and they had drunk 3 litres of milk in half a day – I have no idea what else I’ve been feeding them. The music volume was enough to mean I had to go an apologise to my neighbours. I don’t approve of some of the friends tbh as I feel he might have managed to stop smoking by now if he wasn’t hanging around with other smokers. One boy is older, nearly 19 and has been in trouble with the police, I worry about him taking stuff from the house as well. His friends are welcome when I am about but I worry about what will happen without any adult nearby. Why are they not in the houses of the other lads some of whose mothers are there?

·he stayed at his dad’s as usual on Friday night and I told him that I would be taking his house key from him for a week and he would have to revert to the old arrangement of leaving the house with me in the mornings and spending the day at his dad’s – all agreed as in previous point. His dad does not work.

Why does a 17 year old have to stay at his dad's all day? He is old enough to work and would be better off playing football if he is not working. You misunderstand me. I leave for work at 6.30 as I have a 40 mile commute – an hours drive at that hour, nearly twice as much if I leave an hour later. Until a year ago my son went to his dad’s and had breakfast there before going on to school. In the holidays he had his breakfast and then went off to hang with his mates. His dad’s was merely his base for the day – where he got his lunch and could go back to when he needed to. I felt he wasn’t mature enough to leave in the house alone all day until last year and as his dad lives fairly close the arrangement worked well. As stated, he is looking for a job.

·It was when he returned from his dad’s on Saturday and told me I couldn’t do this and his dad wouldn’t let him go to his house that the incident occurred.

He is feeling rejected by both parents at the moment and may not be able to see how to work out how to negoitate. I accept that which is why I said I felt some sort of mediation or counselling would be helpful. He has been told I love him and don’t want to sanction him but that agreed rules have to be kept and it is my unfortunate responsibility to ensure they are.

·His dad constantly undermines me to him. I left because of his dad’s alcoholism, lack of work ethic and general abusiveness when my son was 2 – he did not therefore witness any abuse but he is told about what a b*tch I am every week – the term his dad prefers is c*nt. I try not to reciprocate but have in recent months reacted sometimes when told that "dad and his girlfriend think you are wrong because…" by saying that dad and GF have no right to comment on anything that happens in our house and if he wants to live by their rules he'll need to do it in their house.

Fair enough in one sense but maybe sometime you need to explain why you have a particular rule in your house rather than just this is my rule? This has been discussed. Why would I sit down with him and agree the rules and sanctions without this forming part of the discussion? Most of our rules are about safety – his safety, my safety and the safety of our property – we were burgled a few years ago and he knows that the insurance company have put strict conditions on my household policy and that if he leaves the house unsecured we will not be covered. He knows that I find it difficult to sleep if I'm not certain he is locking up properly and that the consequence of him leaving the door unlocked once means several days of sleep deprivation as I wake up to check.

·My son is basically being told that it is ok to behave like this by his dad who then says that he is not welcome to live with him. He wants to retain control without any responsibility. I know I’m not dealing with this well or I wouldn’t be in the situation I currently face.

Been there. Then you understand how helpless and powerless I feel now.

·I wouldn’t let him back in the house on Saturday night and he went to stay with my sister who let him in and then talked to him on Sunday. She told him he wasn’t to come home to me for a week as he had treated me so badly and needed to negotiate a stay with his dad - if he couldn’t get his dad to agree then he was to stay with her. His dad did let him stay so he is there. She also took him home to get clothes while I was out yesterday.

Maybe dad will be less keen to create that much disturbance in future as it has consequences for him and his GF? I’m hoping that it will though I’m afraid he’ll be receiving further reinforcement of my ex’s opinion of me so he could be worse.

·I am at work today but will take time this evening to make some calls to the helplines some of you have been so kind in providing. I think we need outside help, some sort of family counselling, to get us back on track. I can’t give up on my son without doing everything in my power. I do wish I could take his dad out of the equation all together but I can't. How ironic that it was I who insisted on and had to facilitate them having contact 15 years ago because I thought it would be best for my child!

Hmm. The problem is that if he had no contact, he would idolise his dad and the situation would be very little better if not worse. I can see how that might be the case.

At least this way he can see what dad does even if he cannot yet make the appropriate judgements about it. Hopefully.

RAS wrote: »

Do you have any good male friends or family would can offer a counter influence?
My sister and her husband are trying to help. My trusted male friends are all work colleagues and don’t know him except from me talking about him. I know he lacks a good male role model and worry about this.

As an OP mentioned, tackling him in front of his friends will have caused a huge loss of face and at his age being shwon up by mum is a no-no.
That isn’t what happened – I politely asked him to come to the kitchen for a minute – he refused and became belligerent and defensive. He shouted at me in front of his friends, I was in another room until then but had to go and quietly ask the others to leave and watch them they snigger as they did so.

Is there anything he really wants to do that you could offer as an incentive for good behaviour?
He wants to learn to drive and I had agreed to pay for his provisional licence if he got a part time job to pay for lessons – but he's blown that - I can’t spend that money on him after what he did. I need him to see that the plants he killed will cost money to replace. The other damage he has caused is yet to be paid for - I have very little extra money every month.

And maybe part of what you have to explain to him is that you love him and want so much for him but that in order to give him what you have done so far, you had to do a lot of things to keep the roof over your heads and the food on the table. You appreciate that means that he may not have had everything he would like but you do the best you can.
He does know this and when he's not being an idiot he is helpful, caring and thoughtful - he understands that I have a long day at work and that the reason I work hard is to provide a decent home for us and he does his bit to help out. What I need is to find a way to ensure this side of him is nurtured and the other banished.

Thanks again for everyone's insight.

RAS

Frustratedmother wrote: »

Originally Posted by Frustratedmother
To address some of the queries –

·Sanctions are for breaking rules or not doing his chores – he is expected to do a couple of household tasks every day or for leaving the iron switched on – he also irons his own clothes apart from school uniforms which I do. Sanctions tend to be things like losing his playstation or his computer access for a period.

Hi

Given his age, are these actaully appropriate sanctions any longer? he is nearly an adult now. They are the sanctions that my son and I have agreed on. What other sanctions do you feel would be more appropriate?

Are they sanctions that you proposed and he acquiesed to? What sanctions would he propose.

And a lad doing his own ironing is pretty rare, I thought? It’s not something we row about either except when I come home to find he’s left the iron switched on which I feel is both dangerous and wasteful.

Agreed but I have been known to do it.

·on this occasion the rule that was broken was leaving the front door unlocked overnight on Thursday and having friends in the house while I was at work on Friday. I came home early and found a house full of young people and was sworn at and generally abused by him in front of them when I asked him to come and talk to me in another room.

I agree that no locking the front door is a problem, if that is his responsibility (last home?) He wants to stay up later than I can as he’s on school holidays and he smokes – not with my approval but that’s another story – so he will unlock the door to go out to smoke as I won’t allow it inside.

Thanks for the explanation - agreed - If he wants to smoke he has to lock the door.

But at his age, why can he not have a limited number of friends in during the day as long as they do not drink, smoke or take drugs? And he has to ensure that the place is tidy and he cleans up after them - good training for house sharing in the future. They were smoking in the house and they had drunk 3 litres of milk in half a day – I have no idea what else I’ve been feeding them. The music volume was enough to mean I had to go an apologise to my neighbours.

This is plainly unacceptable. However, he should be apologising to the neighbours.

I don’t approve of some of the friends tbh as I feel he might have managed to stop smoking by now if he wasn’t hanging around with other smokers. One boy is older, nearly 19 and has been in trouble with the police, I worry about him taking stuff from the house as well. His friends are welcome when I am about but I worry about what will happen without any adult nearby. Why are they not in the houses of the other lads some of whose mothers are there?

Precisely because teenage boys want to get away from adult attention.

I think there is a difference between banning him from having friends when you are out and saying that given how he and his friends behaved when they were there, you cannot agree to a repeat performance. That would be for at least 6 months, then an odd friend , approved by prior argrrment?

·he stayed at his dad’s as usual on Friday night and I told him that I would be taking his house key from him for a week and he would have to revert to the old arrangement of leaving the house with me in the mornings and spending the day at his dad’s – all agreed as in previous point. His dad does not work.

Why does a 17 year old have to stay at his dad's all day? He is old enough to work and would be better off playing football if he is not working. You misunderstand me. I leave for work at 6.30 as I have a 40 mile commute – an hours drive at that hour, nearly twice as much if I leave an hour later. Until a year ago my son went to his dad’s and had breakfast there before going on to school. In the holidays he had his breakfast and then went off to hang with his mates. His dad’s was merely his base for the day – where he got his lunch and could go back to when he needed to. I felt he wasn’t mature enough to leave in the house alone all day until last year and as his dad lives fairly close the arrangement worked well.

Understood

·It was when he returned from his dad’s on Saturday and told me I couldn’t do this and his dad wouldn’t let him go to his house that the incident occurred.

He is feeling rejected by both parents at the moment and may not be able to see how to work out how to negoitate. I accept that which is why I said I felt some sort of mediation or counselling would be helpful. He has been told I love him and don’t want to sanction him but that agreed rules have to be kept and it is my unfortunate responsibility to ensure they are.

Rules are there to be broken and being a teen is about pushing boundaries ALL the time ( bit tongue in cheek). The part of the system with the greatest flexibility runs the system - as your ex has discovered.

·His dad constantly undermines me to him. I left because of his dad’s alcoholism, lack of work ethic and general abusiveness when my son was 2 – he did not therefore witness any abuse but he is told about what a b*tch I am every week – the term his dad prefers is c*nt. I try not to reciprocate but have in recent months reacted sometimes when told that "dad and his girlfriend think you are wrong because…" by saying that dad and GF have no right to comment on anything that happens in our house and if he wants to live by their rules he'll need to do it in their house.

Fair enough in one sense but maybe sometime you need to explain why you have a particular rule in your house rather than just this is my rule? . He knows that I find it difficult to sleep if I'm not certain he is locking up properly and that the consequence of him leaving the door unlocked once means several days of sleep deprivation as I wake up to check.

Maybe this is something you need to tackle outside your relationship.

·My son is basically being told that it is ok to behave like this by his dad who then says that he is not welcome to live with him. He wants to retain control without any responsibility. I know I’m not dealing with this well or I wouldn’t be in the situation I currently face.

Been there. Then you understand how helpless and powerless I feel now.

In the end he was sent to live with dad, who went away and left him hungry, cold and penniless. required a rescue and left a very chastened and unhappy person.

·I wouldn’t let him back in the house on Saturday night and he went to stay with my sister who let him in and then talked to him on Sunday. She told him he wasn’t to come home to me for a week as he had treated me so badly and needed to negotiate a stay with his dad - if he couldn’t get his dad to agree then he was to stay with her. His dad did let him stay so he is there. She also took him home to get clothes while I was out yesterday.

Maybe dad will be less keen to create that much disturbance in future as it has consequences for him and his GF? I’m hoping that it will though I’m afraid he’ll be receiving further reinforcement of my ex’s opinion of me so he could be worse.

·I am at work today but will take time this evening to make some calls to the helplines some of you have been so kind in providing. I think we need outside help, some sort of family counselling, to get us back on track. I can’t give up on my son without doing everything in my power. I do wish I could take his dad out of the equation all together but I can't. How ironic that it was I who insisted on and had to facilitate them having contact 15 years ago because I thought it would be best for my child!

Hmm. The problem is that if he had no contact, he would idolise his dad and the situation would be very little better if not worse. I can see how that might be the case. All the evidence shows this, which is why social service etc like to ensure some contact whenever possible.

At least this way he can see what dad does even if he cannot yet make the appropriate judgements about it. Hopefully.

Thanks again for everyone's insight.

Hi

You are doing an amazing job and I am being challenging here. I think his actions destroying something that he plainly knows you value is cruel and vindicitive. As I indicate, I have personal experience of this.

However, huge part of growing up is about making mistakes. I think were I am trying to come from is that when he screws up the first time, maybe moderate the sanction or discuss how the error occured before deciding to impose it. If he does not learn, then full sanctions for later errors.

However, when he behaves like he did last week, there is no tolerance. he has to learn that bullying and vindictiveness are totally unacceptable.#

With respect to male role models, can you talk to school?

And not funding provisional licence until the cost of replacing the goods he damaged is fine, as long as dad does not then cough up to spite you.