how to report a fraud

the_devil_made_me_do_it

Dora_the_Explorer wrote:

I would imagine the OP has enough suggestions and information from this thread now to pass on to their friend who can act as they wish. Will a council 'fraud squad' be interested in investigating an under occupation when it would appear no fraud has been committed, simply somone not living in the house they were allocated

well I suppose it all depends on what info the op's friend offers to the council. I've never heard of anyone being bothered enough to report this kind of thing before. I would only ever contact the council if the house became a security risk or a danger.

MORPH3US

John_T wrote:

The point I was making was not that we should ignore benefit fraud by individuals, but that the largest part of it is committed by gangs. The Government rather than tackle large scale fraud focuses it's attention on small fry, it has the population shouting about individuals, while the gangs get away with it.

It makes me angry that some people defraud the benefits agency, but I have also met people who have been caught for minor transgressions that they have been compelled to do due to rising debts and serious difficulty in meeting living costs. It's easy to pick up the phone and report someone, it's not so easy for most to show compassion and ask what might someones reason be for doing this.

I pay taxes, and I would prefer if my Government focused it's attention on the largest part of the problem, instead of using smoke and mirrors to hide the truth from the public, the fact is most people do not realise where the bulk of defrauded funds go, and that suits the Government, it saves them having to make too much of an effort to fix inherrent problems in the benefit system that allow gangs to succeed.

I understand what you are saying mate, but I am saying:

1. I find it very hard to believe that the government just ignore organised benefit fraud, in preferrance of smaller scale individual fraud - do you have any proof of this? Just because you don't see them doing anything , doesn't mean they aren't!

2. We see the government "demonising the small fry" defrauders in public because they need the public's help to catch those. The public are hardly likely to see a Mafia boss commiting large scale benefit fraud, thats what they have huge investigation teams for.

3. The government MUST promote zero tollerance on benefit fraud starting at the bottom. No-one should be allowed to get away with it no matter what the size of it!! If people are commiting it because they are in debt, thats their own fault, to be horribly blunt, I don't give a crap what their reason is for doing it, its morally wrong, its illegal and they deserve any punishment they get!

M

the_devil_made_me_do_it

it is illegal, but it's certainly not morally wrong.

Broken_hearted

If they are getting housing benefit for a house they are not living in, a house most likely needed for another family. I hope they do get shopped and made to pay the lot back.

gregg1

the_devil_made_me_do_it wrote:

it is illegal, but it's certainly not morally wrong.

Just made a mistake and pressed the thank you button for this thread - not sure how to delete it but never mind - I suppose it goes with the gist of this post i.e. people getting something that they are not entitled to !!!!!

Of course its morally wrong - how on earth did you arrive at that assumption. This is one the problems today - people have no idea of the definition of the word "moral", the dictionary definition is ethical, right, honest proper and decent. I don't think any of those words could be used to describe a benefit cheat, do you? Also, we can always point the finger and say someone else is committing a worse crime. Basically it would appear that what you are saying is that if there is a worse crime being committed then that should be dealt with before the lesser crime. If a burglar was caught pinching your stuff would you accept his excuse that he should not be reprimanded as there is a gang out there, wherever, in the process of a bank raid and they should be sorted out first - of course you wouldn't!

And I have to take issue with your comment about people committing benefit fraud due to rising debt and cost of living problems. A huge amount of people these days are struggling with the same issues, even people earning a wage. Most of us have been there at some time, the difference is that people with "morals" do not see this as an invitation to commit a crime to get ourselves out of the mess. Sorry, but that is not an excuse or reason to commit fraud but it is a worrying indication of the way some people seem to think a benefit fraudster is some sort of "hero".

gregg1

MORPH3US wrote:

I understand what you are saying mate, but I am saying:

1. I find it very hard to believe that the government just ignore organised benefit fraud, in preferrance of smaller scale individual fraud - do you have any proof of this? Just because you don't see them doing anything , doesn't mean they aren't!

2. We see the government "demonising the small fry" defrauders in public because they need the public's help to catch those. The public are hardly likely to see a Mafia boss commiting large scale benefit fraud, thats what they have huge investigation teams for.

3. The government MUST promote zero tollerance on benefit fraud starting at the bottom. No-one should be allowed to get away with it no matter what the size of it!! If people are commiting it because they are in debt, thats their own fault, to be horribly blunt, I don't give a crap what their reason is for doing it, its morally wrong, its illegal and they deserve any punishment they get!

M

Totally agree, especially with your last para.

the_devil_made_me_do_it

I have got morals by the way.
But I also am realistic too, and I've never said benefit fraud is a lesser crime. I have said that people should also take into account those members of the public who commit tax fraud of one description or another. Tax fraud is no lesser of a crime either. just because someone works or owns their own business, dosen't give them the right to not disclose second/third incomes ect.. it also does not give them the right to draft in accountants to find ways of avoiding tax either by claiming a car belongs to the company when it clearly does not ect... or putting your company into liquidation, then opening the same company under a different name. This happens far too often, and because it's so under handed, fraudsters very rarely get caught. However, I have noted that the tax office also has a hotline, wonder how often it gets used??

the_devil_made_me_do_it

Broken_hearted wrote:

If they are getting housing benefit for a house they are not living in, a house most likely needed for another family. I hope they do get shopped and made to pay the lot back.

I hope you can put your hand on your heart and say you ain't either/or never have cheating/cheated the tax or benefits, even in a small way that you may not even realize.

i think sometimes it can be a case of people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And no, this isn't directed at anyone, just saved me opening a new reply.

the_devil_made_me_do_it

1 last thing. I have had my say on this matter now, I'm gonna leave it alone, and agree to disagree.

deary65

John_T wrote:

I find it mildly amusing how so many people are willing to discuss people they know nothing about.

The harsh reality of benefit fraud is that the bulk of it is comitted by organised criminal gangs who defraud millions of pounds each year from the Benefits Agency.

The Government is demonising the individual rather than tackle larger scale fraud, not only are they creating a culture of spying on your neighbours, a classic tactic of any dictatorship, but it is also wide open for abuse, there are people who will happily grass someone up purely for spite, even if they have done nothing wrong. As far as the Benefits Agency is concerned the onus to prove innocence is on the accused.

One other issue is that the Benefits Agency fail to pay out over a billion and half pounds in entitled benefits a year through carelessness and deliberately keeping some claimants in the dark about the correct entitlements. Whilst individual benefit fraud is a problem, the amount defrauded collectively by individuals pales by comparison to that of what claimants are wrongly deprived of and what gangs take, perhaps some of you should focus your venom and vitriol on getting the Benefits Agency to tackle the largest part of fraud, organised gangs.

It makes me wonder how much of their budget actually goes on advertising hotlines and pursuing individual fraudsters.

Just to underline your point on keeping claimants in the dark.I had occasion to deal with rent reductions by the rent officer.When I asked them to direct me to the primary ledgislation authorising These rules and regulations,I have since heard nothing and the rent was payed in full forthwith.Take about conning people.