selling with adult children who refuse to leave

olly300

Years ago my brother refused to move out of the family home.

He had been spoke to by various members of the extended family but refused to move out. He was nearly 30.

So an older male cousin came to my house and when my mother asked my brother to move out and he refused this older and larger cousin told my brother he was moving out today, and helped him pack his stuff. As I was in the house and aged about 10 at the time (and in the way) my brother didn't resist. He left in a cab a few hours later.

I found out years later that he had stayed with a friend of his briefly before moving into a flat share. If he resisted the police would have been called.

Yes I am saying the adult kids should be thrown out asap.

If they love their younger brother they will be in touch. If not, then your MIL has learnt something about the arrangements she needs to make for her youngest vulnerable son if something happens to her.

Edited to say: My brother did pay board, pay for some food and clean up after himself and me, but that wasn't the point. He was adult and because of him, my older sisters and me had to share rooms.

samanthaxxx

I think the bottom line is that she is scared that they will hate her and that she will lose them forever if she has to chuck them out but yes it is the 16 year old boy that she should be worrying about because of his autism he cannot support himself. He is at colledge at the moment and as he gets older he could possibly hold down a meaniel job but would probably never be able to have a mortgage etc.

roseland69

samanthaxxx wrote: »

I think the bottom line is that she is scared that they will hate her and that she will lose them forever if she has to chuck them out but yes it is the 16 year old boy that she should be worrying about because of his autism he cannot support himself. He is at colledge at the moment and as he gets older he could possibly hold down a meaniel job but would probably never be able to have a mortgage etc.

They are playing on her fears. Which is really low. This isn't really a financial question, but a moral one. They have none, clearly.

I also get the feeling there is more to it; that there may be some resentment that the young lad is getting the attention, not them. The fact that he has problems is by the by for them I think. They really are selfish.

Also, its not about chucking them out so much as them being adults and doing the decent thing and moving out because they've seen the writing on the wall and realise its time. But no. Its them who are forcing her to consider throwing them out. She needs to be made to understand that its THEIR DECISION to force her hand. Therefore its not her "fault". She is in the right here. They are wrong.

I don't know these people from adam, and I feel really angry on the mum's behalf. She sounds like a doormat; yes she is to blame for allowing it to happen. But she is really being used. All because she's afraid they'll stop loving her? You don't stop loving your mum over something like moving home. if you do, then that says more about the kids than the mum and perhaps it'll do them - AND HER - some good.

She needs to take the "risk" and be tough. I understand she's scared. But they have driven her to it. Poor woman. Must be awful. The kids must know she's in turmoil. And still they stay. There aren't words... :mad:

tbs624

Samantha - maybe you and you husband need to step aside and let them all get on with it. You MIL is an adult, your husband's siblings are adults. Some parents behave in this way because it fulfils a need in them personally - they can't stop fussing and clucking over their adult kids because it gives them a sense of purpose. *You* know she simply needs to stop funding them, and give them a list of local properties to let : she either gets on and just does that or she should stop whingeing to you and your husband about it all . Tough love needed here.

zzzLazyDaisy

At the moment they have no legal rights to stay in the house, as it is MIL's home and they are guests.

But

If she lets the move into a bungalow that she doesn't live in and has never lived in, then they will be tenants (even if they don't pay rent). They will have an AST, which means the minimum term is 6 months, not 3 months. Even then, if they fail to move out MIL will have to get a court order. Also, letting them live there rent free causes another problem - it denies her the opportunity to serve a S8 notice for non-payment of rent, so if she did this, she should at least agree some rent, even if it is not a market rent.

In any case, from a tax point of view she would be better off living there herself at first to establish it as a primary residence. Then if she decides to move out and rent it out, she has another three years before CGT kicks in. Okay, property prices aren't going anywhere at the moment, but she would be buying at a lower point in the cycle than a few years ago, and depending on when she does eventually sell, any gains would be averaged out over the full period, and then the first three years ignored.

Whatever she decides to do, she needs to take advice.

Maybe she could sell up, and not buy anywhere new yet. Just move in with the friend and buy somewhere later once she's settled and knows what she wants to do?

Jowo_2

I agree with tbs624.

I have immense amount of sympathy for the lady but you can't sort out other people's problems for them. You have to step back and critically appraise her contribution to maintaining the problem.

For some reason, she allows herself to be taken advantage of and this type of behaviour is not going to go away anytime soon.

I once had a friend who spent a significant time on the phone outlining her problems to us all, actively seeking but then ignoring all advice, and we couldn't understand why she never took any action. She had career problems, money problems, relationship problems, housing problems and so on. She agreed with the logic of all our arguments how to resolve them, promised us that we sort them out, we would draw up action plans with her, give her links to advice sites, find professionals she could speak with. This cycle went on for years, she's no further forward. Some people are just stuck in a rut and you have to leave them in it because they prefer it.

tbs624

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

If she lets the move into a bungalow that she doesn't live in and has never lived in, then they will be tenants (even if they don't pay rent). They will have an AST, which means the minimum term is 6 months, not 3 months. Even then, if they fail to move out MIL will have to get a court order. Also, letting them live there rent free causes another problem - it denies her the opportunity to serve a S8 notice for non-payment of rent, so if she did this, she should at least agree some rent, even if it is not a market rent.

Bit of a muddle there: if it's no rent/low rent then it *can't* be an AST- and any arrangement falls outside the provisions of the Housing Act 1988

Errata

Blimey - it takes all sorts, doesn't it. My solution would be for mum to put the house up for sale which will give the adult children plenty of time between offer and completion to find themselves somewhere to live.
Mum should move in with her friend or into somewhere she's bought with the sale proceeds, whichever she prefers.
If the adult kids are still in the house when the keys and money are exchanged, I'm pretty sure the new owner will escort them to the door.

Fire_Fox

samanthaxxx wrote: »

I think the bottom line is that she is scared that they will hate her and that she will lose them forever if she has to chuck them out but yes it is the 16 year old boy that she should be worrying about because of his autism he cannot support himself. He is at colledge at the moment and as he gets older he could possibly hold down a meaniel job but would probably never be able to have a mortgage etc.

She is worried they will hate her?? They clearly don't love, care or respect for your MIL at present. Your MIL is at retirement age and has the care of a younger child with a learning disability - adult children should be helping in any way possible, financial or moral. Instead they are sound like they are sucking the life out of the poor woman.

Someone should be able to advise if your MIL can serve a section 21 notice on the 'squatters'. For their own good she needs to employ some tough love - stop paying for the cars, ensure they are named on all of the household bills, don't buy any food they like, confiscate any possessions that she paid for until they stop sulking.

Jowo_2

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Someone should be able to advise if your MIL can serve a section 21 notice on the 'squatters'. For their own good she needs to employ some tough love - stop paying for the cars, ensure they are named on all of the household bills, don't buy any food they like, confiscate any possessions that she paid for until they stop sulking.

They're not squatters, they live there with her knowledge. They are excluded occupiers, lodgers, guests, call it whatever you want, and don't have any security of tenure.

She doesn't need to serve formal notice on them, she should put the notice she gives them in writing in the event that they call the Police when she decides to change the locks on them if they remain, but it sounds quite simply that the lady doesn't have the courage to stand up to them.