NRL Scheme-As a tenant should I be witholding tax to pay to CNR/IR-or am I deluded?!

franklee

tbs624 wrote: »

Perhaps not quite as "exceptionaly (sic) simple" as you imply. 6 months or under ( ie up to and including 6 months )and the LL would not be classed as having a usual place of abode that is non UK and if the 6 months+ straddles two tax years then they wouldn't be either.

Here's a direct quote from HMRC for you:

[FONT=&quot]“where letting agents and tenants have no reason to believe that a LL has a usual place of abode outside the UK they are not required to make any special enquiries. In these circumstances they do not have to operate the scheme.”[/FONT]

You could have saved yourself much expended time & energy, having had written confirmation, from both the brother and the LL herself, that her affairs were in order as far as they were concerned (Time & energy that would surely have been better spent sorting out gas safety issues, especially when you have a young family) AFIAA no-one ever died because their LL may have been trying to pull a fast one over tax: however, young children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of carbon monoxide. Worst case scenario: would your kids appreciate your role as an unpaid tax collector if you were the one who was left dead or brain damaged by carbon monoxide poisoning?

Absolutely not condoning any LL who doesn't comply with approriate regs of any sort but your priorities seem a little muddled.

A direct quote from HMRC, from IR140:

"If letting agents or tenants have reason to believe that a landlord has a usual place of abode outside the UK, they should ask the landlord for any information they need to satisfy themselves. Unless they receive information that satisfies them that the landlord does not have a usual place of abode outside the UK, they should start to deduct tax."

I think originally being told by the landlady (and her neighbours) that she was emigrating and that's why the house was to be let for a years fixed term, is reason for any tenant to make special enquiries.

That there have been, according to the emails broclo posted, two versions of the landlady's reasons for being still resident since then doesn't fill me with confidence. Still it's good to know that CNR will put cases where the landlord's situation could change on a sixpence on file to protect the tenant. I think it's clear this case did need referring the CNR so the tenant has piece of mind. After all there is a considerable sum of money involved as the tax is collected at basic rate, for my rent that's approx. 1,900 per year.

As for the gas safety broclo has written she is perusing that too. It's not surprising to me that broclo is discussing the tax issue here more than the gas safety as she started this thread to ask about the tax. Perhaps she didn't require help on the gas safety, maybe already having enough information about it?

Also on this tax issue I find it sad that tenants would face so called "retaliatory eviction" for raising or applying this when they do have reason to believe that a LL has a usual place of abode outside the UK. After all it's the dodgy non-resident landlords who are hard to pin down, the decent ones would register anyway meaning tenants collecting tax isn't needed for them in the first place as HMRC would know they are declaring income and paying tax properly anyway. No wonder the Section 21 was voided for non-compliance with TDS, to stop "retaliatory eviction" of tenants who complain about non-compliance. I wonder if that will be a feature of new legislation in future?

Anyway I'm not sure why is this still an issue, if in doubt ring up HMRC CNR seems clear enough to me

broclo

tbs624 wrote: »

Perhaps not quite as "exceptionaly (sic) simple" as you imply. 6 months or under ( ie up to and including 6 months )and the LL would not be classed as having a usual place of abode that is non UK and if the 6 months+ straddles two tax years then they wouldn't be either.

Terrible that I forgot a letter, accept my

Here's a direct quote from HMRC for you:

[FONT=&quot]“where letting agents and tenants have no reason to believe that a LL has a usual place of abode outside the UK they are not required to make any special enquiries. In these circumstances they do not have to operate the scheme.”[/FONT]

HOWEVER...Should a tenant be told from a LL themselves, family members of the LL, neighbours of the LL and mothers at froups the LL used to visit with her child also...therefore having no reason to think there is any doubt that their LL is intending to emigrate and that they will be out of the UK for more than 6m out of 12m...they should call the CNR and follow the advice given

You could have saved yourself much expended time & energy, having had written confirmation, from both the brother and the LL herself, that her affairs were in order as far as they were concerned I got a letter within 18 hours of the issue being raised by the LL. Enquiries were made prior and during, contact with the LL on this matter as the LL kept changing their intentions. As soon as the letter was recieved, the CNR were contacted and forwarded the information, therefore clearing myself from any tax liabilities (Time & energy that would surely have been better spent sorting out gas safety issues, especially when you have a young family) AFIAA no-one ever died because their LL may have been trying to pull a fast one over tax: however, young children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of carbon monoxide. Worst case scenario: would your kids appreciate your role as an unpaid tax collector if you were the one who was left dead or brain damaged by carbon monoxide poisoning? I bought carbon minoxide detectors, raised the issue with LL by telephone and email and then sent a letter, as advised by the Health And Safety executive. The Health and Safety will then take over the matter Monday, should I have not had a satisfactory response. I have acted responsibly.

Absolutely not condoning any LL who doesn't comply with approriate regs of any sort but your priorities seem a little muddled.

Not at all, it is entirely possible to tackle many issues at once. The other issues were only touched upon here, in order to pain a picture of the situation. I did not need help with these issues as I was dealing with them already. The thread was for advice on the NRL Scheme. Hence the title. The other matters are all in hand. I have explained and highlighted this now many times.

broclo

franklee wrote: »

Anyway I'm not sure why is this still an issue, if in doubt ring up HMRC CNR seems clear enough to me

Indeed!

Franklee, your post yesterday had all the information on the NRL Scheme.

The CNR (who lets face it are the experts) agree entirely with every point on your post.

Posters here may not, but that is not going to be helpful to a reader should they end up liable for £2,400!

As your post showed the relevant laws, the fact the tenant is liable and the way to proceed, should any tenant believe their LL is Non Resident, could you perhaps post it again?

It would be a clear end to the thread as no doubt other posters 'opinions' of the NRL Scheme and the lack of understanding that tax status is entirely different within it, could confuse a concerned teanant.

Thanks franklee

franklee

I think the summary post was this one:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=22799283&postcount=158

Some other tenants who weren't happy below:

Looks like the Irish had a similar scheme, this is old going back to 2004 but it's a discussion where the Irish tenant found out they'd be liable for the tax and then took an offer of some cash from the landlord to keep quiet:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=7564&page=2

This is very old written in 1993, but goes to show these kind of rules aren't popular:

"Having to play Interpol with your landlord's whereabouts seems ludicrously unfair on the tenant."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/tenants-stuck-with-tax-collection-if-your-landlord-is-abroad-you-are-liable-for-the-levy-on-his-rent-sue-fieldman-reports-1489938.html